more mind boggling is the Russian's manufacturing process is not that precise and well controlled yet their production rate of AL-31 is still higher than China's WS10A.
China should instead bring the issue to the forefront as a national study project let more people in the industry and academics to scrutinize what has gone wrong rather than keep everything wrapped inside AVIC.
Or, perhaps they are able to turn out more turbofans
because they're not as precise in their manufacturing.
---------- Post added at 04:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:12 PM ----------
personally i can't justify the use of word 'new' to the WS-10/A anymore, this is an engine already under long development cycle and surely has clocked many hours with the J-11s
admittedly or not (by the officials) there must be some hurdles along the mass production of WS-10/A, not problems in the technicality or design of the engine itself, which should be satisfactory for the PLAAF to induct it for operations
if one look into to the roadmap and plans for future c919 engines, there would be little or perhaps none trickle down result benefited from the WS-10/A, and they decide to start a clean slate, but it is of course a pure conjecture
turbofans remains a challenge for China and PLA
I don't know if it's so much a hurdle we're bearing witness to now as it is an unavoidable reality of new production lines. Think about it this way. When you first begin the production of something, you need to build and set up the facilities, train the workers, get the right machines, etc. Then you need to work out the potential kinks you encounter along the way, such as whether your mass production methods are actually replicating your intended product. Then, when everything is sorted out and you're confident that everything is doing what it's supposed to, you need to build more facilities and train more workers. This all takes time, which equates to a lag in ramping up production. For China, this is especially true because they're new to the entire industry, which means they don't have previous facilities, machines, and work experience that can be re purposed. Everything must be done from scratch.
---------- Post added at 04:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:25 PM ----------
exactly, it should be a mature product by now within normal time frame. The fact that they still have production issue means alot. I am not sure if given another few years will solve it.
I mean design and manufacturing process go hand in hand, if the design is very robust and has alot of margins then it can withstand deficiency in the manufacturing process.
If they can't solve the production rate issue, Hey, they might have to go back to the drawing board to the design to increase the robustness of the design so it can better absorb deficiency in other areas.
Turbofans by their very nature are not robust with a lot of margins for error, so it's somewhat pointless to just say "let's make this design more robust!". Every major turbofan maker today took decades to get where they're at now.
---------- Post added at 04:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:56 PM ----------
Both Dunnigan and Erickson's articles pointed to the late 2011 or in 2012 the production rate is below what's needed and they are frustrated and had to ordered additional AL-31 engines.
China has alot more manpower and resources than Russia, and if their production rate is far lower than Russian's , then I would say that kind of production probably is not acceptable for nation of that size.
Manpower is really useless if you don't also have the knowledge, facilities, and machines to utilize that manpower, which is exactly the problem any industry newcomers have, no matter how much manpower is there.
---------- Post added at 05:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:57 PM ----------
to play the devil's advocate regarding the above
why would PLAAF prioritize WS-10 for the J-11s instead for the fully indigenous J-10? the J-10 is highly profiled and pride of the nation
perhaps it was because of Shenyang Liming, or it was to risky to put a new engine on a single engined aircraft
now that the engine has matured and mass production begun, what's stopping them
the total tally of J-11B produced every year shouldn't exceed 50 (one-two regiments per year?), and we can include the brand new J-11BS and J-15
that's a total of ~100 engines in production volume, i am sure they can produce more than that, while the Russians are getting more contract in the hundreds. That number alone shows China is behind Russia in regards to production volume.
I think it's not the end of reliability tests yet. You often don't feel completely safe with a new design until you've used it through its life expectancy and have had several samples to compare. That's probably one reason they're equipping it on the J-11s first. The other reasons could be related to the relative age of the two fleets.
Production volume and production hiccups are not necessarily equatable. Russia is going to have a higher production volume simply because it has more facilities and more experienced workers than China in turbofan manufacturing, which comes from it being in the field longer and having already matured the necessary investments. After all, it takes time for investment money to turn into material differences.
