Chinese Economics Thread

[Anlsvrthng]

Yeah that's totally off topic LOL. CCP and CCCP are completely different and in many areas, CCP learned from the mistakes of the CCCP. CCCP's total GDP/resources never exceeded 10% of that of the US while China's is currently more than the US by PPP and about 2/3rds by nominal GDP. Totally different animal. Your fixation on nominal GDP per capita is really the least relevant measure to national power and development.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Looks stagnant to me right from 2008. Was doing good before that, not nearly as good as China, of course, but still pretty good. Any other Eastern European countries you wanted to pull up? LOL

Russia GDP PPP ( per capita purchase power parity ) was 55% of the USA in 1990, so I presume the CCCP was similar like that.
China is 28% of the USA at the moment.
Again, from tradingeconomics.

Your data about Poland showing the the performance modified by exchange rate, so a big jump / decrease of PLN/USD can change dramatically it, without any real change in the country performance.

I suggest this :

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

It filter out the exchange rate.

I have to point out that you use the GDP PPP when it fits your "need", and for the same calculation the GDP $ number when its fits your "need" : P

However generally the GDP performance of Poland doesn't show the disastrous job that the polish politicians done between 1980-2012.
The population well being is not equal with the GDP growth.

 

[AndrewS]

Yeah that's totally off topic LOL. CCP and CCCP are completely different and in many areas, CCP learned from the mistakes of the CCCP. CCCP's total GDP/resources never exceeded 10% of that of the US while China's is currently more than the US by PPP and about 2/3rds by nominal GDP. Totally different animal. Your fixation on nominal GDP per capita is really the least relevant measure to national power and development.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Looks stagnant to me right from 2008. Was doing good before that, not nearly as good as China, of course, but still pretty good. Any other Eastern European countries you wanted to pull up? LOL

The USSR PPP per capita did peak at around half that of the USA.

 

[Hendrik_2000]

Your data about Poland showing the the performance modified by exchange rate, so a big jump / decrease of PLN/USD can change dramatically it, without any real change in the country performance.

I suggest this :

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

It filter out the exchange rate.

I have to point out that you use the GDP PPP when it fits your "need", and for the same calculation the GDP $ number when its fits your "need" : P

However generally the GDP performance of Poland doesn't show the disastrous job that the polish politicians done between 1980-2012.
The population well being is not equal with the GDP growth.

I don't know what are you trying to say that Poland is doing better than China. Using your data Poland GDP/capita using PPP is 27000 USD There are 4 or 5 Chinese provinces with roughly 200 million people that exceed those GDP/capita using PPP
I don't know where you get the gut to say that China living standard is the same as Poland living standard in 90 CLEARLY THAT IS NOT THE CASE!
You might not like it but yes Poland stagnate! I suggest you travel to Asia. it will widen your horizon and open new perspective instead of showing your hangup and bias

 

[manqiangrexue]

Russia GDP PPP ( per capita purchase power parity ) was 55% of the USA in 1990, so I presume the CCCP was similar like that.
China is 28% of the USA at the moment. Again, from tradingeconomics.

Which proves per capita ppp is worthless. China's total PPP is higher than that of the US today; Russia's is less than 20%. And this accurately reflects the modern state of development of each country, unlike per capita gdp.

Your data about Poland showing the the performance modified by exchange rate, so a big jump / decrease of PLN/USD can change dramatically it, without any real change in the country performance.

I suggest this :

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

It filter out the exchange rate.

What does your suggestion do? Make it look like Poland's growing? LOL. Poland's building nothing, inventing nothing, going nowhere, which is in contrast to what your "suggestion" says. The graph I selected shows an economy that's getting nothing done, which is what Poland is doing, and is thus much more appropriate.

I have to point out that you use the GDP PPP when it fits your "need", and for the same calculation the GDP $ number when its fits your "need".

That's right, overall GDP is used to measure national development and the ability to expand and upgrade your military. That's what this forum is all about. It doesn't matter if you have a per capita GDP of a billion dollars if you have 8 people in your country; it still has no global power. Per capita PPP is good for determining who can afford to live more decadently and I'm not at all interested in discussing that. Of course, increasing per capita GDP is one way to increase total GDP, but as I said, total GDP is still the go-to number for national power.

The USSR PPP per capita did peak at around half that of the USA.

Not talking about that; I said overall GDP. USSR population was also much smaller so they simply lack the resources to keep up with the US.

 

[Anlsvrthng]

Which proves per capita ppp is worthless. China's total PPP is higher than that of the US today; Russia's is less than 20%. And this accurately reflects the modern state of development of each country, unlike per capita gdp.
.

It is not reflecting the relative development of each country, it just reflecting the size differences.

Say India manage to grow the population to double, an at the same time keeping the GDP on the same level ( 50% in GDP PPP terms of China level).

Now it have the same GDP like China.
Would it means that the Indians live better in that case than the Chinese?

 

[Anlsvrthng]

I don't know what are you trying to say that Poland is doing better than China. Using your data Poland GDP/capita using PPP is 27000 USD There are 4 or 5 Chinese provinces with roughly 200 million people that exceed those GDP/capita using PPP
I don't know where you get the gut to say that China living standard is the same as Poland living standard in 90 CLEARLY THAT IS NOT THE CASE!
You might not like it but yes Poland stagnate! I suggest you travel to Asia. it will widen your horizon and open new perspective instead of showing your hangup and bias

View attachment 48986

Any EU country is doing better than China.

There can be subgroup of people in China that can live better than the average of a country in EU, but as an average the citizens of any EU country live better than the average of Chinese.

The high population number has its advantage, but from the other side it makes very difficult to manage that big number of humans.

Even the EU struggle with its own 300 million inhabitants.
It manages to pull a good decade worth of nice growth, but now its struggle how to change itself.
It will be more difficult for China, simply because its big size.

 

[Klon]

So, some people can't accept that China has a lower standard of living (GDP per capita) than some Eastern European countries? Or is it again about not understanding what per capita means (how else to interpret the constant mentions of China's large population)?

 

[AndrewS]

The average annual real GDP growth rate in China was estimated at 5.3% from 1960-1978.

And this is with all the constant internal revolutions. Without those, it would have been at least 7% per year

 

[AndrewS]

Any EU country is doing better than China.

There can be subgroup of people in China that can live better than the average of a country in EU, but as an average the citizens of any EU country live better than the average of Chinese.

The high population number has its advantage, but from the other side it makes very difficult to manage that big number of humans.

Even the EU struggle with its own 300 million inhabitants.
It manages to pull a good decade worth of nice growth, but now its struggle how to change itself.
It will be more difficult for China, simply because its big size.

Where did you get the population of the EU as 300 million? It's 508 million, which is a huge difference.

So let's take the the 500million people in the coastal Chinese provinces.
That is roughly the same population of the entire EU, and they have a per capita GDP of 90000 YUAN.
That works out as 26,000 USD on a PPP basis. That is above some EU countries, but lower than others.

The EU is structurally flawed, because it is so fragmented with different currencies, laws, languages, political cultures and hostility to internal immigrants.

That is not the case with China, which has transfer payments and infrastructure connectivity projects (from rich coast to poor interior) that the EU cannot dream of doing.

We also see China spending more on technology R&D than the European Union, and also having a larger consumer retail market.

So China should be able to grow the poorer interior a lot faster than the coast, and narrow the wealth gap.

 

[AndrewS]

@Anlsvrthng

If we look at Polish growth performance, one of the most significant indicators is R&D spending.

Poland has a low level of R&D spending (at 1% of GDP), and the historic trend is for it to stay this way.

In comparison, China is at 2.1% which is exceptionally high for a middle-income country and places China amongst high-income developed countries.
No other developing or middle-income country is anywhere near this, as they all top out at half this level.

Furthermore, China's R&D spending is still seeing fast growth, so it's already higher than the EU (2%) and should soon approach the USA (2.7%)

So we will probably see China continue with fast growth by moving up the technology value chain, and therefore China should escape the middle income trap