Chinese Economics Thread
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Martian
Senior Member
"Economic absorption will be followed by political unification: [Taiwanese] Scholars"
Now that you mention it, my computer and printer are both Dell. Does that mean I fall on the wrong side of the divide and don't qualify as a Sinophile? I'll ponder that question later. Anyway, here is one view of the long-term effect of the historic free-trade agreement (e.g. ECFA) between China and Taiwan.
"Taiwan President Ma in hurry to sign ECFA to push unification with China: Experts
Economic absorption will be followed by political unification: Scholars
Taiwan News, Staff Writer
2010-03-07 03:32 PM
TAIPEI (Taiwan News) – President Ma Ying-jeou is in a hurry to sign an Economic Cooperation Framework Agreement so he can realize his ultimate aim of unification with China, reports quoted experts Sunday.
Ma and his government have been pushing for the ECFA to be signed in May or June, despite widespread opposition within Taiwan.
The first phase of Ma’s plan was to realize a One China economic market, which would lead to political unification, academics told a seminar in Taipei Saturday.
Once Taiwan signed ECFA, its economy would be completely absorbed by China, former Mainland Affairs Council Chairman Joseph Wu told the meeting organized by the Taiwan New Century Foundation.
Since Ma came to power in May 2008, he has been following policies that completely echoed those of the Communist regime in Beijing, said Wu, naming his “diplomatic truce.” The policy amounts to abandoning attempts to win new diplomatic allies overseas on the presumption this will lead China to do the same.
For decades, Taiwan and China have been waging a diplomatic competition to persuade the highest number of countries to recognize their side as a country. Taiwan has 23 allies, mostly small or impoverished nations in Latin America, the Caribbean, Africa and the Pacific.
Wang To-far, chairman of the Institute for National Development, said ECFA would lead to the complete annexation of Taiwan’s economy by China, resulting in a One China market. As a result of Ma’s policies, 44 percent of Taiwan’s exports went to China and Hong Kong in January, a clear sign of this trend, Wang said.
The realization of the single market would lead automatically to peaceful political unification the way Beijing wants it, the academic said.
Ruan Ming, adviser to the Taiwan Research Institute, said Ma was acting on Chinese President Hu Jintao’s instructions to put Taiwan on the track to unification and outside of international society.
If the Taiwanese people failed to wake up in time, they would find themselves without a choice,
The opposition Democratic Progressive Party and Taiwan Solidarity Union want a nationwide referendum about ECFA because they say it will harm Taiwan’s sovereignty and decimate its small and medium enterprises by flooding the market with cheap Chinese goods.
The government has been maintaining the view that ECFA is necessary to protect Taiwan’s competitiveness as China, Japan, South Korea and the Association of Southeast Asian Nations cut tariffs.
A round of preparatory talks between Taiwan and China about ECFA is scheduled for Taipei later this month."
Now that you mention it, my computer and printer are both Dell. Does that mean I fall on the wrong side of the divide and don't qualify as a Sinophile? I'll ponder that question later. Anyway, here is one view of the long-term effect of the historic free-trade agreement (e.g. ECFA) between China and Taiwan.
"Taiwan President Ma in hurry to sign ECFA to push unification with China: Experts
Economic absorption will be followed by political unification: Scholars
Taiwan News, Staff Writer
2010-03-07 03:32 PM
TAIPEI (Taiwan News) – President Ma Ying-jeou is in a hurry to sign an Economic Cooperation Framework Agreement so he can realize his ultimate aim of unification with China, reports quoted experts Sunday.
Ma and his government have been pushing for the ECFA to be signed in May or June, despite widespread opposition within Taiwan.
The first phase of Ma’s plan was to realize a One China economic market, which would lead to political unification, academics told a seminar in Taipei Saturday.
Once Taiwan signed ECFA, its economy would be completely absorbed by China, former Mainland Affairs Council Chairman Joseph Wu told the meeting organized by the Taiwan New Century Foundation.
Since Ma came to power in May 2008, he has been following policies that completely echoed those of the Communist regime in Beijing, said Wu, naming his “diplomatic truce.” The policy amounts to abandoning attempts to win new diplomatic allies overseas on the presumption this will lead China to do the same.
For decades, Taiwan and China have been waging a diplomatic competition to persuade the highest number of countries to recognize their side as a country. Taiwan has 23 allies, mostly small or impoverished nations in Latin America, the Caribbean, Africa and the Pacific.
Wang To-far, chairman of the Institute for National Development, said ECFA would lead to the complete annexation of Taiwan’s economy by China, resulting in a One China market. As a result of Ma’s policies, 44 percent of Taiwan’s exports went to China and Hong Kong in January, a clear sign of this trend, Wang said.
The realization of the single market would lead automatically to peaceful political unification the way Beijing wants it, the academic said.
Ruan Ming, adviser to the Taiwan Research Institute, said Ma was acting on Chinese President Hu Jintao’s instructions to put Taiwan on the track to unification and outside of international society.
If the Taiwanese people failed to wake up in time, they would find themselves without a choice,
The opposition Democratic Progressive Party and Taiwan Solidarity Union want a nationwide referendum about ECFA because they say it will harm Taiwan’s sovereignty and decimate its small and medium enterprises by flooding the market with cheap Chinese goods.
The government has been maintaining the view that ECFA is necessary to protect Taiwan’s competitiveness as China, Japan, South Korea and the Association of Southeast Asian Nations cut tariffs.
A round of preparatory talks between Taiwan and China about ECFA is scheduled for Taipei later this month."
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Martian
Senior Member
Economic effects of China-Taiwan free trade agreement/ECFA will resemble NAFTA
I think it is safe to say that trade between China and Taiwan will double or possibly triple (if the ECFA has the same effect as NAFTA) in the next 15 years.
"NAFTA Pros and Cons
Thursday April 24, 2008
See Update - July 10, 2009
The North American Free Trade Agreement, or NAFTA has become an important point in the 2008 Presidential Campaign. Both Democratic candidates promise to either amend or back out of the agreement. Senator Clinton wants to halt all new trade agreements and strictly enforce existing agreements, including all regional trade agreements.
Senator Obama blames "politicians in Washington" for signing trade agreements that he says are bad for the economy because they provide perks for businesses but don't protect workers.
NAFTA is the world’s largest free trade area. The agreement between Canada, the U.S. and Mexico links 439 million people and produces $15.3 trillion in goods and services annually. Some of the advantages include a tripling of trade between the NAFTA signatories from $297 billion in 1993 to $903 billion in 2007. Critics say that the agreement has led to a net loss of 879,000 jobs in the U.S., and a decline in labor protection and degradation of the environment in Mexico."
I think it is safe to say that trade between China and Taiwan will double or possibly triple (if the ECFA has the same effect as NAFTA) in the next 15 years.
"NAFTA Pros and Cons
Thursday April 24, 2008
See Update - July 10, 2009
The North American Free Trade Agreement, or NAFTA has become an important point in the 2008 Presidential Campaign. Both Democratic candidates promise to either amend or back out of the agreement. Senator Clinton wants to halt all new trade agreements and strictly enforce existing agreements, including all regional trade agreements.
Senator Obama blames "politicians in Washington" for signing trade agreements that he says are bad for the economy because they provide perks for businesses but don't protect workers.
NAFTA is the world’s largest free trade area. The agreement between Canada, the U.S. and Mexico links 439 million people and produces $15.3 trillion in goods and services annually. Some of the advantages include a tripling of trade between the NAFTA signatories from $297 billion in 1993 to $903 billion in 2007. Critics say that the agreement has led to a net loss of 879,000 jobs in the U.S., and a decline in labor protection and degradation of the environment in Mexico."
Martian
Senior Member
Taiwan's impetus for ECFA is response to China-ASEAN FTA
I would be remiss to not mention that the impetus for Taiwan to sign the ECFA is to remain competitive against China's other trade partners, such as ASEAN. The China-ASEAN FTA (i.e. free trade agreement) came into full effect on January 1, 2010. You can read the economic ramifications of the China-ASEAN FTA at the following link:
"China-ASEAN free trade area starts operation
2010-01-01 13:13:26
NANNING, Jan. 1 (Xinhua) -- China and the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) kicked off their free trade area (FTA) on Friday.
The world's largest FTA embracing developing countries covers a population of 1.9 billion and China-ASEAN FTA sets stage for economic integration involves about 4.5 trillion U.S. dollars of trade volume.
The average tariff on goods from ASEAN countries to China is cut down to 0.1 percent from 9.8 percent."
"Thursday April 1, 2010
Big jump in exports to China
MALAYSIA’S exports to China increased by 143% last year compared with 2006, said International Trade and Industry Minister Datuk Mustapa Mohamed.
The export value was RM8.4bil last year with a total of 23,424 certificates of origins issued, he said.
“This means that Malaysian companies are benefiting from increasing exports after the implementation of the Asean-China Free Trade Agreement (FTA) in July 2005,” he said.
Under the Asean-China FTA, the import duties were reduced in stages.
On Jan 1, import duties were abolished when 90% of products traded in Brunei, Indonesia, Malaysia, the Philippines, Singapore, Thailand and China became duty free.
“The import duties of the remaining 10% would be reduced eventually,” he said in his reply to Charles Santiago (DAP-Klang).
Mustapa said products exported to China included rubber, vegetable oil, stearic acid, raw palm oil and acetic acid.
Total exports of Malaysia to China was RM67.24bil while imports from China was worth RM60.66bil last year.
“Malaysia enjoys a trade surplus of RM6.58bil with China,” he said.
Mustapa said the ministry had yet to receive any negative feedback from local industries on the implementation of Asean-China FTA.
“The iron and steel industry sector is worried about the stiff competition from China,” he said.
Mustapa said the Government would monitor the impact of the FTA and would take the necessary steps to ensure that the local industry could compete with China.
“Malaysia will continue to discuss with other Asean countries to ensure that Asean-China FTA would not bring adverse effects to Asean,” he said.
Currently, the Government ensures that imported products from China met the standards in all aspects including health and security."
I would be remiss to not mention that the impetus for Taiwan to sign the ECFA is to remain competitive against China's other trade partners, such as ASEAN. The China-ASEAN FTA (i.e. free trade agreement) came into full effect on January 1, 2010. You can read the economic ramifications of the China-ASEAN FTA at the following link:
"China-ASEAN free trade area starts operation
2010-01-01 13:13:26
NANNING, Jan. 1 (Xinhua) -- China and the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) kicked off their free trade area (FTA) on Friday.
The world's largest FTA embracing developing countries covers a population of 1.9 billion and China-ASEAN FTA sets stage for economic integration involves about 4.5 trillion U.S. dollars of trade volume.
The average tariff on goods from ASEAN countries to China is cut down to 0.1 percent from 9.8 percent."
"Thursday April 1, 2010
Big jump in exports to China
MALAYSIA’S exports to China increased by 143% last year compared with 2006, said International Trade and Industry Minister Datuk Mustapa Mohamed.
The export value was RM8.4bil last year with a total of 23,424 certificates of origins issued, he said.
“This means that Malaysian companies are benefiting from increasing exports after the implementation of the Asean-China Free Trade Agreement (FTA) in July 2005,” he said.
Under the Asean-China FTA, the import duties were reduced in stages.
On Jan 1, import duties were abolished when 90% of products traded in Brunei, Indonesia, Malaysia, the Philippines, Singapore, Thailand and China became duty free.
“The import duties of the remaining 10% would be reduced eventually,” he said in his reply to Charles Santiago (DAP-Klang).
Mustapa said products exported to China included rubber, vegetable oil, stearic acid, raw palm oil and acetic acid.
Total exports of Malaysia to China was RM67.24bil while imports from China was worth RM60.66bil last year.
“Malaysia enjoys a trade surplus of RM6.58bil with China,” he said.
Mustapa said the ministry had yet to receive any negative feedback from local industries on the implementation of Asean-China FTA.
“The iron and steel industry sector is worried about the stiff competition from China,” he said.
Mustapa said the Government would monitor the impact of the FTA and would take the necessary steps to ensure that the local industry could compete with China.
“Malaysia will continue to discuss with other Asean countries to ensure that Asean-China FTA would not bring adverse effects to Asean,” he said.
Currently, the Government ensures that imported products from China met the standards in all aspects including health and security."
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Maggern
Junior Member
Re: "Economic absorption will be followed by political unification: [Taiwanese] Schol
...and the guy lost me already there...
...and the guy lost me already there...
Martian
Senior Member
European Economic Zone preceded European Union
I believe that the Taiwanese scholar was referring to the precedent set by the transition of the European Economic Zone (e.g. an European free-trade area) to the European Union (e.g. an economic and political union). Today, the Europeans share more than just a common economic market. The Europeans also permit free movement of European citizens within all of Europe. Also, the Europeans share a common currency in the Euro.
History has shown that economic union precedes political union for culturally-similar entities. The Europeans are culturally-similar Christians with the same cultural values. The Hans in China and Taiwan are even more culturally-similar than the Europeans; the similarity extends to linguistic heritage.
The European Union is indeed a political union. The European president is Herman Van Rompuy. "The European Parliament (EP) forms one half of the EU's legislature (the other half is the Council of the European Union, see below). The 736 (soon to be 751) Members of the European Parliament (MEPs) are directly elected by EU citizens every five years." See
Let's ask an European to shed some light on the matter of political integration in the European Union. By the way, the creation of the position of permanent European president is an indication that European political integration is growing tighter.
"Who is Herman Van Rompuy: First European President
Herman Van Rompuy, the First European President
Hello and welcome to Herman Van Rompuy, the First European President. The European Union enters a new phase: it's getting its first permanent President. Still, I don't like the European Union, and this nomination feels like a stone in a prison wall which will prevent Belgium from ever leaving the EU.
Don't take me wrong, this doesn't mean that I don't like Europe: I'm a proud European. It's just the economical and political union I have problems with.
This lens will talk you through the first permanent European President, Herman Van Rompuy, "former Belgium's Prime Minister.
If you would like to learn more about this person, take a cup coffee or tea and read on.
Herman Van Rompuy by Luc Van Braekel | Wikimedia Commons
Creative Commons License. This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 2.0 Generic License."
I believe that the Taiwanese scholar was referring to the precedent set by the transition of the European Economic Zone (e.g. an European free-trade area) to the European Union (e.g. an economic and political union). Today, the Europeans share more than just a common economic market. The Europeans also permit free movement of European citizens within all of Europe. Also, the Europeans share a common currency in the Euro.
History has shown that economic union precedes political union for culturally-similar entities. The Europeans are culturally-similar Christians with the same cultural values. The Hans in China and Taiwan are even more culturally-similar than the Europeans; the similarity extends to linguistic heritage.
The European Union is indeed a political union. The European president is Herman Van Rompuy. "The European Parliament (EP) forms one half of the EU's legislature (the other half is the Council of the European Union, see below). The 736 (soon to be 751) Members of the European Parliament (MEPs) are directly elected by EU citizens every five years." See
Let's ask an European to shed some light on the matter of political integration in the European Union. By the way, the creation of the position of permanent European president is an indication that European political integration is growing tighter.
"Who is Herman Van Rompuy: First European President
Herman Van Rompuy, the First European President
Hello and welcome to Herman Van Rompuy, the First European President. The European Union enters a new phase: it's getting its first permanent President. Still, I don't like the European Union, and this nomination feels like a stone in a prison wall which will prevent Belgium from ever leaving the EU.
Don't take me wrong, this doesn't mean that I don't like Europe: I'm a proud European. It's just the economical and political union I have problems with.
This lens will talk you through the first permanent European President, Herman Van Rompuy, "former Belgium's Prime Minister.
If you would like to learn more about this person, take a cup coffee or tea and read on.
Herman Van Rompuy by Luc Van Braekel | Wikimedia Commons
Creative Commons License. This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 2.0 Generic License."
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From that and other articles in the same paper, it seems to me this article is essentially giving the position of the DPP, which opposed any extension or development of ties, communication, etc, with the mainland on the grounds that it would be one more nail in the coffin of Taiwan independence. Ma's KMT, of course, fought the civil war against what today is the PRC: it does not want "unification", and the "scholar" is just grinding an axe. What the KMT sees now is that isolation from China means, over the medium and long term, isolation from the whole world and economic paralysis as well, especially given the free trade agreements that are being reached all around itself.
I don't actually see a connection with Europe at all (nor do I see the EU as a genuine political union, though that is the wish of France and Germany and a few others).
I don't actually see a connection with Europe at all (nor do I see the EU as a genuine political union, though that is the wish of France and Germany and a few others).
Martian
Senior Member
How much more proof do you need?
European Union map
European Union flag
European Union headquarters in Brussels
European Union currency
European Union identification card
For an almost endless amount of information regarding the European Union, please visit the official website of the European Union:
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A common foreign policy IN ACTION on Iraq, Afghanistan, etc., and most importantly, a common MILITARY FORCE, which is independent of NATO and which actually overshadows the military forces of the individual countries. (You know, how many aircraft carriers does California have?) The picture ID above actually says she is a British citizen. This still means something, much more than just residence.
Krabat1976
New Member
Wonderful news! With the collapse of western economy very likely in the future it seems that Taiwan will enter in China Mainland seconomic phere without fire a bullet. This will open the possibility of a peaceful solution of the political stalemate.