Chinese Economics Thread

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
Let go to the basic : China stuck in the middle age until 1950 because of the inefficient(non existing) and expensive way to change.Great Britain controled the world because it was able to make highly efficient iprovements with low cost.

So, the SOE will be humilitated by small companies in investent


Example the whole semiconuctor revolution in the silicon valley was dictated by small /micro companies, not big companies.

Highly efficient inventors and nvestors.
Hey hey hey, you're breaking the pattern! When you say something this stupid, you need to add, "It's simple"!

China was technologically very poor in the 1950's because it was RAVAGED BY WAR and by the 1950's Britain was yesterday's news already. Today, China is still running SOEs and Britain has never changed its business philosophy to be less "efficient", but China's economy is 5 times larger and growing much faster than Britain's.

Yes, if you adopt a very near-sighted view that immediate profits are the ultimate justification, then yes, SOEs are "humiliated." Like I said, that slave-to-money mentality is yours and not for the Chinese. For those who put any value on the future, SOEs humiliate small companies in scale and technological achievement. Basically, if you value making $10,000 more than spending a couple billions to make a stealth fighter to defend the country with, then yes, your country should be all small private companies. That's not China and you can stop making that recommendation because that will never be China as it is incompatible with our national mission.

You can raise the semiconductor example but one example is meaningless, like most of the things you say. There are so many examples of technologies developed in China by SOEs I can't possibly name them all.

Highly efficient investors and inventors have their place; with all the start-ups in China, you can see that they are thriving as well. But when they cannot rise to the challenge of a magnanimous task, the brute force of SOEs will rise to make things happen.

PS. Your post is completely irrelevant to your "failed rail" example, which I will take as an admission that you were just mashing your head into a wall making up stories just to keep talking.
 
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AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
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Take credit for a system they dislike. Yes the Chinese owe the West a great gratitude for China's system even though they fully reject it. Does that mean frozen hair kid is the West's fault? Do they take blame for the bad parts as well? My bet is they don't.
 

supercat

Major
Trump's tariff against China's solar panels is not necessarily a bad thing. Maybe China can use these solar panels to meet their increasing domestic demand.

China leads the way in photovoltaic capacity
According to the latest data from 2017, China added more than 53GW in new installations, an increase of 53.4% from a year earlier

The photovoltaic industry has witnessed explosive growth in 2017, as China remains on top globally in terms of newly installed capacity for the fifth consecutive year,
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reported.

Photovoltaic technology allows the conversion of light into electricity, and it’s believed the market will be worth US$345 billion worldwide by 2020.

According to the latest data released by the National Energy Administration, in 2017, China has added more than 53GW in new photovoltaic installations, an increase of 53.4% from a year earlier.

The country’s cumulative installed capacity has exceeded 130GW, securing first place around the world for the third consecutive year.

In the global perspective, the newly installed capacity has increased over 37% year-on-year to 102GW, adding to a cumulative photovoltaic capacity of 405GW globally. Among all, Japan, the United States and India have installed new capacity of 6.8GW, 12.5GW and 9GW respectively.

“The Chinese photovoltaic market will continue to see vigorous growth,” said Wang Bohua, the Secretary-General at the China Photovoltaic Industry Association. “The demand for new installed capacity in 2018 will range from 30GW to 45 GW.”

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here's Reuters Exclusive: China's state-owned firms to face more mergers, bankruptcies

Updated 17 hours ago
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China’s state-owned enterprises will face more mergers and bankruptcies as the government overhauls the lumbering state sector, the head of the country’s state asset regulator told Reuters.

In a rare interview with a foreign news outlet, Xiao Yaqing, chairman of the State-owned Assets Supervision and Administration Commission (SASAC), stressed Beijing’s commitment to streamline its bloated and debt-ridden state-owned sector and create conglomerates capable of competing globally.

China embarked on a revamp of its state-owned enterprises (SOEs) in 2015 to tackle rising corporate debt and also to make them more profitable and responsive to market forces.

It has claimed progress in its SOE restructuring through mergers, reductions in excess capacity, the relocation of workers, closure of “zombie” firms, and implementing a controversial scheme under which debt is converted into equity.

“Our wish is for them to be bigger, stronger and more efficient. And this is what they’re about to be in the future,” Xiao told Reuters on the sidelines of the World Economic Forum in Davos on Tuesday.

He said the focus would be to strictly separate government functions from the SOEs’ business operations, though it was vital for the ruling Communist Party to retain control of the state sector during the process.

The number of enterprises administered by the central government has been reduced to 98 from 117 in 2012.

The merger of China’s top coal miner, Shenhua Group Corp SHGRP.UL, and China Guodian Group Corp CNGUO.UL, among the country’s top five state power producers, created the world’s largest power utility worth $278 billion.

When asked about further SOE consolidation, Xiao said the number of central government-owned companies would continue to decrease through mergers in “a voluntary process”, though the SASAC did not have a target for this reduction.

Xiao also pointed out the importance of the relocation of workers during the reforms, saying that SOEs, with the help from local governments, ought to create programs to absorb laid-off workers after consultation with them.

“We do not want them to be laid off or just fired in this process,” he said. “We need them to be allocated into new positions.”

PROFIT RECOVERY, CUTTING DEBT
Enterprises owned by China’s central government reported robust growth in 2017, with total profit up 15.2 percent, the fastest in five years.

In the interview, Xiao attributed the rebound of SOEs’ profitability to China’s stable economic growth, rising commodity prices and ongoing state-sector reforms.

“We reduced a lot of ‘zombie enterprises’. Now the management efficiency of the companies is significantly improved,” he said.

The Communist Party’s People’s Daily reported this month that central government-owned SOEs had met their target of shutting 1,200 zombie enterprises by the end of last year.

Moreover, state-owned enterprises will target coal capacity cuts of 12.65 million tonnes in 2018, and will also aim to reduce excess capacity in coal-fired power, non-ferrous metals, shipbuilding and construction materials.

Xiao said SOEs’ leverage is at “healthy levels”, and bankruptcies and liquidation have only happened at second-tier companies, not at the holding group level.

SASAC has pledged to further lower debt ratios of central government-owned firms by another 2 percentage points by the end of 2020.

Xiao expects market-driven SOE bankruptcies to continue.

“As long as you’re market player, you have your good times and you have your bad times, and sometimes you just go bankrupt,” Xiao said.

STRENGTHENING PARTY CONTROL
As SOEs spearhead investment in infrastructure projects overseas under Beijing’s Belt and Road initiative, the strengthened leadership of the Communist Party at SOEs is raising concerns that political factors will be prioritized.

The value of overseas assets held by China’s centrally owned enterprises has exceeded 6 trillion yuan ($940 billion), with investments in more than 185 countries and regions.

While saying the government will slowly move to play a less direct role in the business operations of state firms, Xiao defended the Communist Party’s control of the state sector.

Imposing party discipline on state firms remains a key part in choosing top management and in fighting graft at SOEs, he said, adding that he did not see any conflict of interest between state political goals and commercial interests of SOEs.

“SOEs are owned by the general public, which means everyone in this country is a shareholder. Then we need a representative, which is the Chinese communist party, to supervise and play a scrutiny role for the companies,” Xiao said.

Xiao said that during his meetings with CEOs in Davos, business leaders had expressed strong interest in China, in working with its SOEs and in the future of SOE reforms.

“I can’t tell you what the SOE sector will be in 10 or 20 years, but we do hope that SOEs could be exactly like other companies: they will have higher liquidity of their assets and respond more efficiently to market changes,” Xiao said.

($1 = 6.3925 Chinese yuan renminbi)
 

Equation

Lieutenant General
This explains why the Chinese economy are maturing and stable.

Why The Death Of Manufacturing In China Means A Positive Economic Outlook In 2018

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. I help Fortune 500 companies plan for tomorrow.

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of roughly 80% since 2010, it has experienced a consistent year-over-year deceleration due to an
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. In the past year, the slowed growth has finally stopped. In 2017, the Chinese economy experienced
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for the first time in seven years, but this acceleration is not because manufacturing is having a resurgence. In fact, many areas of manufacturing continue to fade in importance in China for a number of reasons.

https%3A%2F%2Fspecials-images.forbesimg.com%2Fdam%2Fimageserve%2F793873777%2F960x0.jpg%3Ffit%3Dscale

Shutterstock

However, even as the death knell tolls for low-end manufacturing, this is ultimately a positive sign for China’s economic forecast in 2018 because it signals that China’s economy is growing up. The fact that gross domestic product (GDP) stabilized (even improved) despite manufacturing weakness means that China is able to stand on its own two feet based on services and consumption like a mature economy. The manufacturing crutch is being slowly pulled away, and China is still standing.

But before we can look ahead, it’s important to look at some of the key drivers that led to this acceleration. Traditionally, the foundation of the Chinese economy has been set in manufacturing. The government heavily subsidized the industry and
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. As such, it was attractive to foreign companies to invest in Chinese manufacturing.





However, manufacturing has been weakening in China for three primary reasons. First, changes in government policy have
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. Second, the
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while the
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, putting Chinese manufacturers at a pricing disadvantage on exports. Lastly, China is facing
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. In other words, other countries in the region, such as Malaysia and Bangladesh, are offering quality manufacturing alternatives at a cheaper price. In fact, even Chinese investors are investing in
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.

As manufacturers began to leave China in 2010, we saw an
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that lasted until 2016. During this same time period, however, the Chinese consumer was growing stronger, and we have now reached the tipping point where the strength of consumer is outpacing the deceleration caused by the manufacturing exodus. By 2015, the
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was responsible for more than 50% of China’s GDP, and in the past year,
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rose 0.1% -- from 6.7% in 2016 to 6.8% in 2017 -- which, for a country of China’s size, is quite significant.


The fact that China’s economy can show accelerated growth despite the continued weakening of the manufacturing industry is a strong positive indicator that it is ready to become a mature market. While the country is still far off from becoming a saturated market, like the U.S. or Europe, and slowing its growth to a comparable rate, the transition to a consumer-based economy proves that China has entered an important inflection point. It will be pivotal for U.S. companies to understand the current transition if they want to grow their presence and offering in Asia.

Entering 2018, the strength of the Chinese consumer will continue to outpace the dwindling manufacturing industry and propel the economy forward. China has experienced consistent wage growth while the cost of living has stayed relatively low, helped along by the
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. As a result,
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is up. Consumers are feeling confident, and positive consumer sentiment indicates healthy future spending.

Overall, while the manufacturing outlook in China is bleak, factors such as positive consumer sentiment, a strong yuan and wage growth indicate that the consumer has grown strong enough to support a maturing economy. While the Chinese economy used to be manufacturing-based, it is now consumer-based. As the economy in China continues to mature in the coming year, we can expect an overall positive outlook.
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solarz

Brigadier
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Take a look at population projections up to 2100. China's population will get a lot older and smaller.

Population projections are based on fertility, mortality, and migration statistics. The problem with using those statistics is that it assumes they will stay constant. As a result, population projections fail to take into account social changes.

China is changing at a rapid pace. It has just loosened its family planning policy, and the fertility rate is in the process of rising. No one really knows how fast or how high it will rise. Therefore, any long term population projection is speculative at best.
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
Now western press always like throw a spanner on the Chinese economic success story with insinuation of fake data. Here is the proof that the growth is real
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THE REPORT
chinese-facilities-630x378.png

Satellite image of Chinese factory activity. Source: SpaceKnow
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REAL-TIME INTEL ON WHAT MOVES MARKETS
China manufacturing expansion continues apace: satellites
Images of factory activity confirm official PMI, showing fastest pace of expansion in five years
By ASIA TIMES STAFF JANUARY 26, 2018 11:09 PM (UTC+8)

China’s manufacturing continues to expand at the highest pace in five years, according to SpaceKnow’s China Satellite Manufacturing Index, derived from satellite images of factory activity.

image.png

Source: Bloomberg
The Spaceknow index serves as a cross-check on the official PMI. As the chart shows, the two gauges tell the same story.
 

ZeEa5KPul

Colonel
Registered Member
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Take a look at population projections up to 2100. China's population will get a lot older and smaller.
You want to project as far as 2100? Alright. By 2100, rejuvenation biotechnology will have advanced to such a point that aging will be essentially cured. 70 year-olds in 2100 will look, feel, and function as they did when they were in their mid-twenties. Automation and AI will also have advanced to a point where human labour is rendered obsolete.

If you think that's science fiction, that's fine. But you should understand that these population projections are every bit as speculative.
 

Klon

Junior Member
Registered Member
Population projections are based on fertility, mortality, and migration statistics.
Yes.
The problem with using those statistics is that it assumes they will stay constant.
No. That doesn't make sense. You can see that changes are modeled. That's why confidence intervals and high and low variants are reported.
As a result, population projections fail to take into account social changes.

China is changing at a rapid pace. It has just loosened its family planning policy, and the fertility rate is in the process of rising. No one really knows how fast or how high it will rise. Therefore, any long term population projection is speculative at best.
Population predictions are by nature much less speculative than most others. For example, everyone who will be older than 32 (which for China means more than half of the population) in 2050 has already been born.
China's total fertility rate is far below replacement and has been there for a quarter of a century. It is also not seeing
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growth to get above replacement.
 
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