Chinese Economics Thread

Blackstone

Brigadier
US should get on board the BRI right the way so it could shape it for American interests from within. Being left behind yields too much strategic initiative to the PRC.

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China will ask 28 world leaders to sign on to President Xi Jinping’s signature initiative on globalization, bolstering a range of Chinese foreign policy objectives, according to people familiar with the draft communique. Not everyone is yet in agreement.

The Belt and Road Forum is Xi’s cornerstone initiative to connect China with Europe, Asia and Africa through infrastructure projects. Not only is it a showcase for Xi’s globalization credentials that he championed in a
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at Davos in January, but the high-profile event will also serve as a counterpoint to America’s inward pivot under President Donald Trump.

A draft communique combines commitments to open international markets with endorsements of China’s diplomatic goals, according to the people, who asked not to be identified because they were not authorized to speak publicly. The communique will oppose protectionism and warn that the global trading regime is facing headwinds and that economic recovery is fragile.

But some diplomats in Beijing said the Chinese government has not given sufficient consideration to input from their countries while preparing the draft set for release Monday at the end of the two-day
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in the capital.

"It’s likely to backfire a little on the Chinese,"
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, former senior director for Asia at the U.S. National Security Council during the George W. Bush administration, said of the draft. "There will be some sense in Europe and the U.S. that China is making the mistakes you’d expect to see of a major power that’s just coming into its own. It’s a little bit full of itself and enthralled with its new position and it can be tone deaf to others."

The document includes a pledge to oppose all forms of protectionism, language which was removed from a communique issued by Group of 20 finance ministers in March at the
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of the Trump administration.

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The document also includes a statement of support for the Paris Agreement on climate change, another topic Trump officials asked to be removed from the G-20 communique. The U.S. has not yet said who it will send to the Beijing summit.

The draft language, which is subject to change, also includes standard Chinese diplomatic appeals for signatories to respect the territorial integrity of countries and to consult with each other on an equal footing, phrases China often uses to discourage outside challenges to its territorial claims on Taiwan and the South China Sea.

China’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs did not reply to a faxed request seeking comment.

Xi
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the initiative then known as the Silk Road in 2013 and will
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more than two dozen heads of state including Russian President Vladimir Putin and Pakistani Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif on May 14-15. Credit Suisse Group AG estimates the plan could funnel investments worth as much as
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into 62 countries over five years.

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The document emphasizes themes that Xi has made central to his international remarks on global development, including triangular cooperation and South-South cooperation, an idea he emphasized in a September 2015
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before the United Nations General Assembly.

"What it represents is President Xi himself feeling very confident about China’s ascendancy. He got great coverage of his remarks at Davos, and he’s feeling as if the United States has ceded a lot of ground in the international arena to him," said Wilder, a former China military analyst at the Central Intelligence Agency.
State media have
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to the initiative’s ambitions as reflecting "globalization 2.0." Belt and Road is "restructuring the global production value chain amid profound changes in the post-crisis world," the official Xinhua News Agency reported in March from the Boao Forum in Hainan province, where leaders of nations from Madagascar to Micronesia spoke to the annual economic conference about their ambitions to take part in the sprawling framework.

The communique repeats China’s claim Belt and Road will be inclusive and open to other countries, as well as complement existing regional frameworks. The draft includes pledges of support to 13 separate regional bodies and cooperation agreements ranging from the European Union to the African Union and Association of Southeast Asian Nations.

That very inclusiveness, though, may create opposition. The organizations the document pledges to support include the Eurasian Economic Union, a regional body championed by Putin that former U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton
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in 2012 as an effort to "re-Sovietize" the neighboring region.

The fact that China’s diplomatic priorities are central to the initiative shouldn’t be surprising, said Wilder, who is a senior fellow with the Initiative for U.S.-China Dialogue on Global Issues at Georgetown University in Washington. "The Chinese often go too far with these things, particularly when it’s an event on their own soil and when it involves a leader who has put their name to it."
 

dingyibvs

Senior Member
When I said "training", I didn't necessarily mean college education. It doesn't need to be any kind of formal education at all. It simply means your willingness to change and to learn new things.

As manufacturing jobs go away, service sectors become more important. No matter how advanced the society becomes, you still need people to provide all kinds of services. You could become a mechanic. A few months of training will get you a certificate. Or you could simply get a job at a local auto shop and promise your new boss that you can learn.

You could also become a chef. Of course, you can go to culinary school, or become a dishwasher and work your way up.

As population ages, we need more health care professionals. Of course, you can go to med school to become a physician, or take a short course to become a nurse.

What about an oil rigger? How about opening your own business to sell your own hand-made stuff? And what about becoming a fisherman?

Most of these jobs don't need dedicated and extensive training. You will be a "greenhorn" when you first step on a fishing boat, but will be able to move your way up the chain simply by watching and learning how others are doing things.

Instead of being stubborn and complain about why my old job is gone, be willing to change. Be willing to adapt. You don't need a college diploma to be flexible. Of course, many people are stubborn and don't want to change. Then these people would suffer the most during time of change.

What the government needs to do is to first give a clear message to these people that their old ways will be no more. Tell them that they must change to adapt. Then provide fundings to open more workshops to train people new skills. Again, I don't mean college education. I mean new skills to become a construction worker, a chef, a fisherman, an auto mechanic, etc. these jobs don't need advanced degrees, just willingness to learn and to change. Then more funding and tax breaks for small business owners. Let them open their own business, be it a diner or a food truck...

There's a reason why there are so many chefs, fishing boats, etc. as there are now--it's the number that their salary can attract. If more were to go into those professions, their salaries would decrease vis-a-vis the rest of the population even if not in absolute terms. This is a natural consequence of their productivity not keeping up with the productivity gains of the society at large.
 

B.I.B.

Captain
When I said "training", I didn't necessarily mean college education. It doesn't need to be any kind of formal education at all. It simply means your willingness to change and to learn new things.

As manufacturing jobs go away, service sectors become more important. No matter how advanced the society becomes, you still need people to provide all kinds of services. You could become a mechanic. A few months of training will get you a certificate. Or you could simply get a job at a local auto shop and promise your new boss that you can learn.

You could also become a chef. Of course, you can go to culinary school, or become a dishwasher and work your way up.

As population ages, we need more health care professionals. Of course, you can go to med school to become a physician, or take a short course to become a nurse.

What about an oil rigger? How about opening your own business to sell your own hand-made stuff? And what about becoming a fisherman?

Most of these jobs don't need dedicated and extensive training. You will be a "greenhorn" when you first step on a fishing boat, but will be able to move your way up the chain simply by watching and learning how others are doing things.

Instead of being stubborn and complain about why my old job is gone, be willing to change. Be willing to adapt. You don't need a college diploma to be flexible. Of course, many people are stubborn and don't want to change. Then these people would suffer the most during time of change.

What the government needs to do is to first give a clear message to these people that their old ways will be no more. Tell them that they must change to adapt. Then provide fundings to open more workshops to train people new skills. Again, I don't mean college education. I mean new skills to become a construction worker, a chef, a fisherman, an auto mechanic, etc. these jobs don't need advanced degrees, just willingness to learn and to change. Then more funding and tax breaks for small business owners. Let them open their own business, be it a diner or a food truck...

That is easier said than done in a first world country like NZ. Fishing and food truck business which you suggested as an alternative require substantial amount of capital , while a person earnings, probably at the bottom end of the wage scale as a production line worker, would be unable to meet.

A radio station which I listen to has a host who is currently in the process of setting up a food truck and he said he has spent in excess of $70000 so far.

To become a commercial fisher in NZ which is heavily regulated, you need a fishing permit, apply for an annual catch entitlement and buy or lease quota shares. So before buying a fishing boat one would have already spent tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars already.

You also mentioned working on an oil rig. One of my brothers could not decide whether to attend university or not when an opportunity for an apprenticeship on an oil rig was offered to him. He took it up and years later became a qualified deep sea expansive diver. In this capacity, he lives submerged in the ocean for a month and has a month day off. They work in pairs and on alternate days has the role of the buddy who does the monitoring. The work can only be done in the summer months and he works three months in the North Sea oil and gas fields and three months doing the same in our gas/oil fields during our summer. A couple of years ago he told me he earned slightly over a Thousand Pounds working on the north sea fields and $3000 NZ dollars a day working at the NZ Gas fields.
 

Orthan

Senior Member
Bloomberg article about china´s productvity.

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China has a serious problem with produtivity. In 2015, the total factor produtivity of china even declined while india´s grew. China needs to adopt free market reforms. Its state capitalism economy wont work indefinetly
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
Bloomberg article about china´s productvity.

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China has a serious problem with produtivity. In 2015, the total factor produtivity of china even declined while india´s grew. China needs to adopt free market reforms. Its state capitalism economy wont work indefinetly

But but here come the clincher
The Conference Board, using adjusted economic growth estimates,
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that Chinese labor productivity rose 3.7 percent in 2015, Compare to

Of course, even that reduced clip looks drool-worthy to policymakers elsewhere. Labor productivity inched upwards by a mere 0.7 percent in the U.S. and 0.6 percent in the euro zone in 2015.

This is clearly case of half full or half empty glass. I seen this kind of critic over the years. It borne out of ideology. Which China refuse to follow . Because there are other consideration which is social stability

Then they will find all kind indicator to show China in bad light. But the reality is something else Chinese wages grow year by year averaging 10% The economy is slowly transform into consumption based. Industry moved into greater automation.GDP/capita is approaching $10000 what middle income trap? exceeding some of latin america economy

India number is high because it started from very low base!
All in all it is " sky will fall" prediction that never materialized. Instead of looking into one single indicator they should see other indicator to get better picture
 
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solarz

Brigadier
Bloomberg article about china´s productvity.

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China has a serious problem with produtivity. In 2015, the total factor produtivity of china even declined while india´s grew. China needs to adopt free market reforms. Its state capitalism economy wont work indefinetly

I have to laugh at these kinds of articles, because they are clearly written with the recommended "solution" in mind first. You can always cherry pick data to support any conclusion you want.

China is in the process of moving from a manufacturing economy into a service economy. Obviously there will be a lot of challenging scenarios during this transition, and not all of them will have a happy ending.
 

Blackstone

Brigadier
Of course, even that reduced clip looks drool-worthy to policymakers elsewhere. Labor productivity inched upwards by a mere 0.7 percent in the U.S. and 0.6 percent in the euro zone in 2015.
Not an apple to apple comparison, because US and EU are advanced economies, while China is still a developing economy. One expects higher Chinese productivity gains relative to US and EU.
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
Not an apple to apple comparison, because US and EU are advanced economies, while China is still a developing economy. One expects higher Chinese productivity gains relative to US and EU.

I like when you say that yet when it come to high technology like C919 you have no compunction comparing China to US on equal basis. So which one take your pick!

It is apple to apple comparison if you go by GDP China's GDP is roughly 62% of US GDP whereas india is only 25% of Chinese economy
China is neither developing nor developed country it is in between now
 

Blackstone

Brigadier
I like when you say that yet when it come to high technology like C919 you have no compunction comparing China to US on equal basis. So which one take your pick!
That's an imprecise statement, because the COMAC C-919 is supposed to be competition for the Boeing 737 and the Airbus 320, so direct comparisons are kosher. Productivity gains of China should be compared with other countries in similar development stage, meaning they should be stacked against US productivity gains at around 1850 or so, and not 2017.

It is apple to apple comparison if you go by GDP China's GDP is roughly 62% of US GDP whereas india is only 25% of Chinese economy
China is neither developing nor developed country it is in between now
China is really hard to gauge, because it's an outlier in nearly every measurable economic category. Suffice to say no nation has come so far so quick on such a scale. China is the only done to do it, and chances are high that for a host of reasons, there wouldn't be another China. No one else can accomplish what China has done in time and scale.
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
That's an imprecise statement, because the COMAC C-919 is supposed to be competition for the Boeing 737 and the Airbus 320, so direct comparisons are kosher. Productivity gains of China should be compared with other countries in similar development stage, meaning they should be stacked against US productivity gains at around 1850 or so, and not 2017.
.

It is not even close Boeing start developing passenger plane in 1925 So Boeing has 90 year lead over COMAC
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In the latter year Boeing get generous help from the government research grant and has access to any technology developed by NASA ames research center

And no going by GDP/capita it is closed to 1940, 1950 So China productivity grew very fast even comparing to US

RealGDPperCapita-650x450.png
 
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