Chinese Economics Thread

solarz

Brigadier
My opinion is that instead of giving people money, give them food and basic housing, enough to keep them alive but not enough to entice them not work

Instead of providing people with free food, house, or money, we should be providing them with work. Nobody should have the right to free food, but everyone should have the right to be allowed to work for their living.

This is why minimum wage laws are so perversely wrong. The higher the minimum wage, the less the amount of jobs available. What's better for society: two people each working for 5$ an hour, or one person working for 10$ an hour and another collecting welfare?
 

no_name

Colonel
This is why minimum wage laws are so perversely wrong. The higher the minimum wage, the less the amount of jobs available. What's better for society: two people each working for 5$ an hour, or one person working for 10$ an hour and another collecting welfare?

One person working for 10$ an hour, then gets taxed 50% and that goes to another's welfare hahahaha... :p ...no.
 

vesicles

Colonel
One person working for 10$ an hour, then gets taxed 50% and that goes to another's welfare hahahaha... :p ...no.

Not if you find a tax shelter and hide your $$$!:p:D:cool:

My sister who lives in AUS told me that this is exactly what is happening to them. They work their butts off and end up losing 40-50% to taxes. It's very disheartening.

Compared to that, what we have in the States is still much better. Most Americans still have to work hard to get what they want. There is some free lunch, but not much. My sister and her husband came to visit us in the States several years ago. They were constantly amazed how hard most Americans work. A simple example: on their first night in Houston, they landed at ~9:30pm. So after picking them up at IAH, I took them to a Sushi place near downtown. They couldn't stop saying how amazing it was to able to find a place to eat that late at night. I couldn't understand why they were so surprised. They then told me that most restaurants in the AUS close after 7-8pm. You simply couldn't find place to eat at night. On the other hand, most restaurants in the States open until late at night.

I think it's still a good balance between rewarding the hard-working vs dishing out free stuff. Is it perfect? No! But much better than what is happening elsewhere.
 

no_name

Colonel
Yes people in NZ typically worked from 8-8:30 to 5-5:30pm.
Even blue collars not many of them wants to work overtime, just make enough to be comfortable and then go to pubs or something. Not a lot of things to do once the sun goes down if you are a drinker, shopping malls closes down early save for some supermarkets and maybe Chinese restaurants.
 

vesicles

Colonel
Yes people in NZ typically worked from 8-8:30 to 5-5:30pm.
Even blue collars not many of them wants to work overtime, just make enough to be comfortable and then go to pubs or something.

My parents went to Spain a couple years ago and found that that they typically got traffic jams at 3-4am in the morning on weekdays because that's when most people would go back home after a whole night of drinking. And they go to work at around noon and get off at 5pm. That's what welfare does for you...
 

B.I.B.

Captain
Instead of providing people with free food, house, or money, we should be providing them with work. Nobody should have the right to free food, but everyone should have the right to be allowed to work for their living.

This is why minimum wage laws are so perversely wrong. The higher the minimum wage, the less the amount of jobs available. What's better for society: two people each working for 5$ an hour, or one person working for 10$ an hour and another collecting welfare?

On a lot of occasions the work is not in the same geographic region to where they live.
 

vincent

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
Instead of providing people with free food, house, or money, we should be providing them with work. Nobody should have the right to free food, but everyone should have the right to be allowed to work for their living.

This is why minimum wage laws are so perversely wrong. The higher the minimum wage, the less the amount of jobs available. What's better for society: two people each working for 5$ an hour, or one person working for 10$ an hour and another collecting welfare?

I think modern agriculture is productive enough to feed everyone on earth. It shoudn't be expensive to feed everyone for free (especially if you provide canned veggies). People may not be able to work for one reason or another. Instead of making perverse excuses for people to apply for welfare and have an entire bureaucracy to verify their claims and continue to check on them, just give everyone free food if they ask for it

Here in Toronto, i think welfare is ike $600 per month, not exactly living with luxury with that kind of money

Europeans get paid less i think. I read somewhere that it is a tradeoff they are willing to accept. I worked for a French company once and it was hard to ger stuff done with the headquarter people during the summer because they can take a whole month off
 

vincent

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
Not if you find a tax shelter and hide your $$$!:p:D:cool:

My sister who lives in AUS told me that this is exactly what is happening to them. They work their butts off and end up losing 40-50% to taxes. It's very disheartening.

I think the Aussie are getting universal healthcare and other benefits in return, same as the Canucks. I remember the roads in Sydney are much better than the ones in the States
 

Blackstone

Brigadier
How many of China's 1% are Communist Party members? Maybe a better question to ask is how many of them aren't?

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A new report from one of China’s top universities found that wealth and income inequality in the country is getting steadily worse. According to the report, one-third of the country’s wealth is owned by the top 1 percent of households, while the bottom 25 percent account for only 1 percent of wealth.

That data was revealed in a 2015 report from
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, an annual survey aimed to shed light on the “wellbeing of the Chinese population.” The survey, launched in 2010, is conducted by the Institute of Social Science Survey at Peking University and funded by the Chinese government.

When
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Li Jianxin, a Peking University sociology professor who was the primary author, said the content could be roughly divided into two overarching themes: inequality within families and within society at large. Intra-family issues, Li said, related to questions like how property is distributed between husbands and wives, how children provide support for their elderly parents, and the support provided to families by migrant workers. Social inequality as captured by the report included not only wealth inequality but also unequal access to education and health insurance (resulting in “health inequality”).

Many of these issues are interconnected. Social problems stemming from migrant workers making a living far from their families are a direct consequence of the regional and rural/urban income gap. The rural/urban income gap also feeds back into education and health inequality. Meanwhile, the need for children to support their elderly parents is a consequence of the fact that the national and local government support is far from enough to meet seniors’ needs, and social services are not widely available.

China’s social inequality has exploded since the country embarked on its “reform and opening up” process in 1979. In 1980, China’s Gini coefficient (a measure of inequality) stood at 0.3, according to People’s Daily; in 2012, it was at 0.49. The Gini coefficient measures inequality on a scale of 0 (perfectly equal) to 1 (perfectly unequal); any country with a Gini coefficient over 0.5 is considered highly unequal. A coefficient of 0.4 is generally considered to be a warning level. For comparison, the most recent
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for the Gini coefficients of the world’s other top economies — the United States, Japan, and Germany — were 0.41, 0.32, and 0.3, respectively.

Inequality has long been a serious concern for China’s leaders. As
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in its summary of the report, “These inequalities are growing steadily. If they cannot be effectively solved, they may very likely threaten social stability and thus become a bottleneck in future social development.”

For China’s government, social inequality is worrying because of the potential threat it poses to social stability – particularly in a country whose government remains nominally communist. A survey by People’s Daily before the National People’s Congress in 2015 listed wealth inequality as the top issue China’s people wanted their government to tackle. Meanwhile, treating the symptoms of wealth inequality – insuring equal access to education as well as providing universal health insurances and pensions for the elderly – dominated Chinese netizens’ wishlist for the 13th Five Year Plan, according
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.

However, the income gap is also reflected in social attitudes, which the Peking University report found were increasingly stratified. That is to say, there’s a mental gap between China’s “haves” and “have-nots” when it comes to evaluating how the country (and its leaders) are doing. Concern over inequality in China has spawned caustic suggestions that the country belongs only to an elite few – the
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. But, predictably, those who are experiencing financial success are far less cognizant of the wealth gap.

In fact, the Peking University report suggested that China’s middle class has the potential to serve as “social stabilizers,” because they tend to have more positive outlooks on the wealth gap, more confidence in party cadres, and more upbeat evaluations of government performance.
 
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