Chinese Economics Thread

broadsword

Brigadier
Looks like Gordon Chang forgot to tell Nike China's economy was/is collapsing.

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Well, Nike does not represent the overall economy. Li Ning is struggling, but then Nike is the icon of sports. The car market is struggling, but the property market has been picking up and import of most metals increased in August. One economist was saying China is experiencing the same growing up pains as Japan did in the 60s.
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
The use of the word "collapse" is more wishful thinking. Like China's economy would collapse to zero? It's just as ill-informed as watching the US presidential candidates chastising China because the US stock market was affected by what's happening in China. I thought they wanted China's economy to collapse to eliminate China's global influence. I thought China bought nothing from the US hence all the whining over unfair trade. Well the US stock market wouldn't be affected if what they believed were true.
 

B.I.B.

Captain
Here;



What other task do you think it was going to receive?
Boeing was not going to license the entire job and you can't actually transport a semi-built 737 to another location so the plane is going to be flown in on it's own meaning the only job left is what I earlier posted basically installing seats, in-flight entertainment systems, and some galleys and lavatories, as well as the custom paint job.

There is other associated work China,s aviation industry can participate in.
Xian Aircraft International make blocker doors for the thrust reversers used on CFM 56-5A and B engines for the Airbus 320.That could lend weight to any request by Xian to become involved in the production of IPS units for the LEAP 1C engine used in the Comac C 919 and if it’s not fanciful thinking on my part, the Leap1B which powers the Boeings it has just ordered. When it comes time to look at the latest gen Airbus 320’s, theres the Leap1A which is one of the choice of two engines available.
 

SamuraiBlue

Captain
There is other associated work China,s aviation industry can participate in.
Xian Aircraft International make blocker doors for the thrust reversers used on CFM 56-5A and B engines for the Airbus 320.That could lend weight to any request by Xian to become involved in the production of IPS units for the LEAP 1C engine used in the Comac C 919 and if it’s not fanciful thinking on my part, the Leap1B which powers the Boeings it has just ordered. When it comes time to look at the latest gen Airbus 320’s, theres the Leap1A which is one of the choice of two engines available.

In Modern passenger jets the engine and the air frame are considered as complete different parts and are ordered separately. Boeing has no saying to the engine manufacturer which is the same the other way around.
 

B.I.B.

Captain
I realize that. However the important part is that it does provide skilled work to meet ever changing expectations.


I was going to mention some other aspects before I was called away .So I will finish off what I was going to say .
The Leap IB which Boeing has chosen to exclusively power the llatest 737 has some performance issues. Left unsolved before the required availability date may open the door for China to play a bigger part in the construction process to keep costs down for Boeing and its customers For instance the Radom, parts of the wing or tail section could be made and shipped back to the states. A bigger part in the engine manufacturing processs should Boeing decide to penalise CFM

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by Vinay Bhaskara / Published April 7, 2015

"In the last few months, Boeing’s re-engined 737 MAX has quietly run into a bit of trouble. For weeks, sources at the Melun-based engine manufacturer CFM have quietly noted that the LEAP-1B engine that will power the 737 MAX is facing a serious performance shortfall of close to 4-5% in specific fuel consumption (sfc),…………..


as
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, a 5% sfc deficit is difficult to overcome immediately and would likely require multiple PiPs to fully be vanquished. That aeroturbopower article highlights some of the more important technical considerations, and the conclusion is that CFM (and by extension Boeing) may be in deep trouble). The caveat, of course, is that with close to two years until EIS, this is not an insurmountable problem for CFM to overcome in testing and development. But it would be very difficult indeed………………


As per Boeing’s claims, the 737 MAX is supposed to save 14% on fuel burn versus the existing 737NG family, but a 2.5% miss on sfc, offset by 0.5% that Boeing has managed to save through aerodynamic improvements to the airframe, would result in the true figure being somewhere between 12-12.5%. This would amount to somewhere around $100,000 in lost savings per aircraft per year (using back of the envelope math and figures adapted from aeroturbopower’s article), which for airlines such as Southwest, with 200 frames on order, would amount to a $10 million per year financial hit. Now much of that financial hit would be borne by CFM, who has fuel burn performance guarantees written into any order for engines, but it still creates problems for Boeing, who would be offering an inferior product to the market for outstanding sales…….."

Now Chinese airlines using the Boeing based on similar calculations would have a shared hit of at least half that again
 
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Blackstone

Brigadier
Well, Nike does not represent the overall economy. Li Ning is struggling, but then Nike is the icon of sports. The car market is struggling, but the property market has been picking up and import of most metals increased in August. One economist was saying China is experiencing the same growing up pains as Japan did in the 60s.
Yes, China is experiencing growing pains as it transforms from an investment and high manufacturing economy to a service and consumption based economy. Japan did it, ROK did it, and Taiwan did it, and now it's China's turn.
 

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
I don't think coverage of the CBB's report was posted recently.

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China Beige Book Says Pessimism ‘Thoroughly Divorced From Facts’
Bloomberg News
September 21, 2015

China’s economy isn’t as weak as it may look, according to a private survey from a New York-based research group that says it’s a myth the nation’s slowdown is intensifying.

“No collapse is nigh” in the aftermath of the stock market plunge and currency devaluation, according to the third-quarter China Beige Book, published by CBB International and modeled on the survey compiled by the Federal Reserve on the U.S. economy. Capital expenditure rebounded slightly in the period and the services sector showed strength, the report said.

“Perceptions of China may be more thoroughly divorced from facts on the ground than at any time in our nearly five years of surveying the economy,” CBB President Leland Miller wrote in the report. “Global sentiment on China has veered sharply bearish--too bearish. While we have long cautioned clients against relying on rosy official views of the Chinese economy, we believe sentiment has swung substantially too far in the opposite direction.”


The report describes a mixed, rather than disastrous, picture of the world’s second-largest economy. Weakening exports, deepening factory-gate deflation and a manufacturing slowdown have highlighted the risk of this year’s expansion undershooting Premier Li Keqiang’s target for growth of about 7 percent.

The survey’s findings contrast with deepening skepticism over China’s outlook and policy makers’ ability to steer the economy. Fed Chair Janet Yellen last week referred to concerns about the "deftness" of China’s response to downside risks, while Goldman Sachs Group Inc. Chief Executive Officer Lloyd Blankfein called the handling of its stock market collapse "ham-handed."

A Bloomberg monthly gross domestic product tracker remained below the government’s goal in August with a reading of 6.64 percent. The nation’s official factorygauge slumped to a three-year low last month.

"Manufacturing is neither a microcosm of the economy nor its bellwether, and performances in other sectors buoyed overall results," Miller wrote in the report withCraig Charney, director of research and polling. They said retail and property weakened, yet were still stable and improved from a year ago.


Confidence in China’s prospects has been undermined by wild stock-market swings. The Shanghai Composite Index closed 1.9 percent higher Monday at 3,156.54, paring the decline to 39 percent from its seven-year high in June.

The report was based on surveys of more than 2,100 firms across China and interviews with bankers, managers and executives. CBB began the series in mid-2012, when itsinaugural survey indicated a pick-up in growth from early that year, a forecast later borne out.

An April 2013 report corroborated signs of damage to luxury goods makers from President Xi Jinping’s anti-graft crackdown. A December 2014 issue indicated expansion in services was stabilizing the economy, with little need for "extra juice" of stimulus -- yet continuing weakness in growth led policy makers to step up easing in ensuing months.

The current report shows that services, which account for more than half of China’s economy, show improvement in sales, pricing, volumes and capital expenditure. CBB said the slowdown was concentrated in the public sector, where revenue growth slowed moderately, while private businesses showed a “slight downtick” from a higher growth rate.

The authors said it’s a myth that the worst factory gate deflation in six years in August signals a wider risk. “Arguments that producer deflation and consumer inflation are both slicing into firm profits are further undercut by the responses of thousands of firms in our national survey,” they wrote.

"The best situation for most economies is stable and low inflation,” the authors wrote. “China appears to be enjoying exactly that, notwithstanding widespread fear of deflation.”

The report also found that job growth inched up, company profits improved, and wage growth moderated mildly. Capital expenditure picked up for a second quarter following four quarters of broad decline, the authors wrote.
 

Franklin

Captain
I don't think coverage of the CBB's report was posted recently.

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China Beige Book Says Pessimism ‘Thoroughly Divorced From Facts’
Bloomberg News
September 21, 2015

China’s economy isn’t as weak as it may look, according to a private survey from a New York-based research group that says it’s a myth the nation’s slowdown is intensifying.

“No collapse is nigh” in the aftermath of the stock market plunge and currency devaluation, according to the third-quarter China Beige Book, published by CBB International and modeled on the survey compiled by the Federal Reserve on the U.S. economy. Capital expenditure rebounded slightly in the period and the services sector showed strength, the report said.

“Perceptions of China may be more thoroughly divorced from facts on the ground than at any time in our nearly five years of surveying the economy,” CBB President Leland Miller wrote in the report. “Global sentiment on China has veered sharply bearish--too bearish. While we have long cautioned clients against relying on rosy official views of the Chinese economy, we believe sentiment has swung substantially too far in the opposite direction.”


The report describes a mixed, rather than disastrous, picture of the world’s second-largest economy. Weakening exports, deepening factory-gate deflation and a manufacturing slowdown have highlighted the risk of this year’s expansion undershooting Premier Li Keqiang’s target for growth of about 7 percent.

The survey’s findings contrast with deepening skepticism over China’s outlook and policy makers’ ability to steer the economy. Fed Chair Janet Yellen last week referred to concerns about the "deftness" of China’s response to downside risks, while Goldman Sachs Group Inc. Chief Executive Officer Lloyd Blankfein called the handling of its stock market collapse "ham-handed."

A Bloomberg monthly gross domestic product tracker remained below the government’s goal in August with a reading of 6.64 percent. The nation’s official factorygauge slumped to a three-year low last month.

"Manufacturing is neither a microcosm of the economy nor its bellwether, and performances in other sectors buoyed overall results," Miller wrote in the report withCraig Charney, director of research and polling. They said retail and property weakened, yet were still stable and improved from a year ago.


Confidence in China’s prospects has been undermined by wild stock-market swings. The Shanghai Composite Index closed 1.9 percent higher Monday at 3,156.54, paring the decline to 39 percent from its seven-year high in June.

The report was based on surveys of more than 2,100 firms across China and interviews with bankers, managers and executives. CBB began the series in mid-2012, when itsinaugural survey indicated a pick-up in growth from early that year, a forecast later borne out.

An April 2013 report corroborated signs of damage to luxury goods makers from President Xi Jinping’s anti-graft crackdown. A December 2014 issue indicated expansion in services was stabilizing the economy, with little need for "extra juice" of stimulus -- yet continuing weakness in growth led policy makers to step up easing in ensuing months.

The current report shows that services, which account for more than half of China’s economy, show improvement in sales, pricing, volumes and capital expenditure. CBB said the slowdown was concentrated in the public sector, where revenue growth slowed moderately, while private businesses showed a “slight downtick” from a higher growth rate.

The authors said it’s a myth that the worst factory gate deflation in six years in August signals a wider risk. “Arguments that producer deflation and consumer inflation are both slicing into firm profits are further undercut by the responses of thousands of firms in our national survey,” they wrote.

"The best situation for most economies is stable and low inflation,” the authors wrote. “China appears to be enjoying exactly that, notwithstanding widespread fear of deflation.”

The report also found that job growth inched up, company profits improved, and wage growth moderated mildly. Capital expenditure picked up for a second quarter following four quarters of broad decline, the authors wrote.
This shouldn't come as a surprise. China is at the moment in a transition from mass low end production towards higher end production and services. There is a lot of creative destruction going on in the Chinese economy were the old is making way for the new. The weakness of the media coverage and the analysis of the Chinese economy is that they focus too much on the destruction part and not enough on the creation part.

The effect of the stock market falls on consumption in China will be very minimal as the driving force of consumption in China is rising income and not rising asset prices like those of stocks and real estate. As China moves up the value chain its creating well paying jobs on mass. And the infrastructure of the country and the education levels of the people keeps getting better. This is helping to create new opportunities all the time. China is creating new industries, products and businesses at a record setting pace which in turn helps to drive up income.
 
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Hytenxic

New Member
China wins Indonesia high-speed rail project as Japan laments ‘extremely regrettable’ U-turn

Japan has lost a key Indonesian high-speed railway contract to China, dealing a heavy blow to Prime Minister Shinzo Abe who is seeking to take advantage of infrastructure exports for economic growth.

Sofyan Djalil, head of the Indonesian National Development Planning Agency, told Japanese Chief Cabinet Secretary Yoshihide Suga in Tokyo on Tuesday that Indonesia planned to accept the Chinese proposal, Suga said.

The decision came after
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earlier this month because of the high financial costs and
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.

But Sofyan told Suga that China recently made a new proposal to build the high-speed rail link between Jakarta and the West Java provincial capital of Bandung without Indonesian fiscal spending or debt guarantee. Sofyan was visiting Japan as special envoy of Indonesian President Joko Widodo.

Suga termed the Indonesian about-face “difficult to understand” and “extremely regrettable”.
In Jakarta, Presidential Chief of Staff Teten Masduki told a small group of reporters that Japan failed to win Indonesia’s heart because its proposal was more about government-to-government cooperation, while Jakarta prefers business-to-business cooperation.

The Japanese government spokesman doubted the feasibility of the Chinese proposal to build the railway without Indonesian funding. The railway project is estimated to cost 78 trillion rupiah (HK$41 billion).

“It defies common wisdom. I doubt if it will be successful,” Suga said.

In an apparent effort to dampen the Japanese government’s disappointment, Teten said there were still a lot of opportunities for Japan to invest in Indonesia’s infrastructure sector.

“There are a lot of infrastructure projects that we have been offering, not only the Jakarta-Bandung high-speed railway project, but also the one connecting Jakarta and (the East Java provincial capital) Surabaya,” he said.

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Lets see if it will follow through this time.
 
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