Chinese Economics Thread

Blackstone

Brigadier
Just a few weeks ago, US politicians complained China allowed the market forces to depreciate the yuan (a.k.a. RMB), and accused China of damaging the US and world economy. Last Friday, US Treasury complained China's central bank is propping up its currency. It seems China can't win for losing, and it'd be funny if the issue wasn't so serious.

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(Reuters) - A senior U.S. Treasury official said on Friday that
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has been intervening to keep its yuan currency from falling more than it otherwise would and that the sooner Beijing lets the market work, the better for China.

The official, who spoke to a group of reporters but asked not to be named, urged Beijing to allow the currency to rise and fall freely.

The comments preceded a state visit to Washington by Chinese President Xi Jinping on Sept. 25, in which Xi and President Barack Obama will discuss economic ties between the two countries as well as their increasingly testy relationship over security matters.

Washington has long urged Beijing to let the yuan appreciate, arguing that China was using a weak currency to make its goods cheaper in America.

But China these days is facing doubts in financial markets over the strength of its economy. The Treasury official said China's decision to loosen restrictions on currency trading last month, which prompted a sharp fall in the yuan's value, appeared to be perceived in markets as having the intention to prop up China's economy, sowing further doubts among investors.

The official said China should not feel like it needs to step in and stop declines in financial markets every time investors send it signals about the economy.

He said China's commitment to letting market forces play a bigger role in the value of the
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will earn more credibility when it allows market forces to push its value up.
 

broadsword

Brigadier
BBC Radio 4 news tells us today that the nuclear power plant Electricite de France will build with Chinese financial support in England at Hinckley Point, Hinckley Point C, will be of Chinese design. Is that the Chinese version of the French design that is building so slowly in Finland?

It should be the Hualong-One, a composite of local and foreign designs. Fuqing nuclear power station in Fujian is using the technology for two of its reactors and is currently under construction. It met the safety review of international experts.

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Equation

Lieutenant General
Anyway enough of the OT rants. Looks like China manufacturing is back in business with the use of robotics manufacturing. Just in time for upcoming holidays babe!:D:p

One reason for declining manufacturing costs in China is that it is shifting more of its production to robots, counterbalancing the effects of rising wages. In a report to be released later this month, the International Federation of Robotics found that China accounted for 25 percent of industrial robot sales in the world in 2014 and had purchased about 56,000 units, with the automotive industry the leading buyer. China's share of the world's robots is up from last year's
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, which made China the country with the largest percentage of the world's industrial robots.

That said, it may take a while before many U.S. manufacturers ramp up their production in China significantly. For one thing, many manufacturers in China aren't likely to dangle price breaks to U.S. firms easily, even when declining overhead justifies it, according to Gary Young, president of Avela, which has helped companies source products and services in China since 2002 and has offices in Houston and Shanghai. Often, he has found, U.S. firms find there is resistance when they try to renegotiate deals with Chinese manufacturers whose costs are declining.

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Equation

Lieutenant General
Never say never; unlikely or improbable I'd buy. On the other hand, Washingtonians elected Gary Locke Governor, Louisianans elected Bobby Jindal Governor, South Carolinans elected Nikki Haley Governor, Californians elected S.I. Hayakawa Senator, and lots of Asian-Pacific Islanders elected to all other level of offices. Also, Obama was twice elected as President. So, maybe we'll someday see an American of Asian ancestry as President. Who knows, it might even be in my lifetime. But, I care less about the race part and more about his/her character and believes.

None are President though. It looks to be like the Donald Trump is far more popular with the main stream crowd than anyone that you just listed. Anyway how many of them would even recognize or even care to know? I rest my case.
 

Equation

Lieutenant General
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SEATTLE (Reuters) - Chinese President Xi Jinping landed in Seattle on Tuesday to kick off a week-long U.S. visit that will include meetings with U.S. business leaders, a black-tie state dinner at the White House hosted by President Barack Obama and an address at the United Nations.

Xi and his wife touched down in an Air China 747 at Paine Field, adjacent to the massive plant where Boeing Co makes its largest jets, some 25 miles (40 km) north of Seattle. They were welcomed by Washington state Governor Jay Inslee.

In downtown Seattle, about 100 people - both for and against Xi's presence - gathered peacefully outside the Westin hotel. Protesters representing Falun Gong, a religious group that says it is repressed in China, held placards, while well-wishers waved Chinese and U.S. flags and large red cloth signs that read "Hello President Xi" in Chinese characters.

Xi is due to make a policy speech at a banquet at the hotel in the evening in the company of Microsoft Corp co-founder Bill Gates, the chief executives of Boeing Co and Starbucks Corp and other local luminaries.

The Chinese leader's visit to Seattle, which he called "America's gateway to Asia" in prepared remarks upon his arrival, comes at a delicate time in U.S.-China relations.

U.S. government and business leaders aim to strike a balance between forging agreements and improving relations with the world's second-largest economy, while sending strong messages about allegations of Chinese cyber spying and intellectual property violations as well as Internet censorship and China's disputed territorial claims to islands in the South China Sea.

For the Chinese side, Xi's meetings with Obama and U.S. business leaders offer the chance to bolster the president's stature at home, building on a high-profile military parade earlier this month to mark the end of World War Two, while deflecting attention from the country's recent stock market rout, slowing economy and a chemical explosion at a Tianjin warehouse that killed over 160 people.

In a reminder of potential flashpoints in ties between the two countries, the Pentagon said on Tuesday that a Chinese aircraft performed an unsafe maneuver during an air intercept of a U.S. spy plane off China's northeast coast last week.

Among the few concrete agreements expected to result from the Obama-Xi summit has been a military-to-military confidence building step aimed at reducing the risk of aerial collisions between warplanes in areas such as the South China Sea through adoption of common rules of behavior.

CYBER SPYING ACCUSATIONS

White House officials said cyber spying will be a key part of discussions between Obama and Xi, but they do not expect the U.S. to level economic sanctions against China for cyber espionage ahead of Xi's arrival in Washington.

In comments published in the Wall Street Journal before his arrival, Xi said China's government does not engage in theft of commercial secrets or support companies that do.

“I know that we, like others, will be looking for evidence that the Chinese government is pursuing policies based on those principles,” Assistant Secretary of State Daniel Russel, the Obama’s administration’s top Asia diplomat, told reporters at a pre-summit briefing.

Xi also said China's economy faces downward pressure but is still operating within a proper range, adding exchange rate reform will continue and there was no basis for sustained depreciation in the yuan.

The United States will urge Xi to avoid "quick fixes" for its economy, such as devaluing its currency to boost exports, White House chief economist Jason Furman told Reuters on Tuesday.

China's recent loosening of controls on the yuan currency "caused turmoil" in global financial markets and U.S. officials plan to raise the issue of China's volatile stock market, Furman said.

BOEING TOUR

The Chinese president is due to tour Boeing's widebody plant and the nearby Microsoft campus on Wednesday, and will later meet Warren Buffett, Apple Inc Chief Executive Tim Cook and Amazon.com head Jeff Bezos, among 30 U.S. and Chinese business leaders at a roundtable discussion.

U.S. tech companies are seeking to expand access to the Chinese consumer market. Even if no formal agreements are reached, the presidential blessing "sends an important message to Chinese leadership" to help them, said Ed Lazowska, Bill and Melinda Gates chair of computer science at the University of Washington.

For Boeing, the visit could bring a formal announcement of plans for an aircraft finishing plant in China. The plant would help Boeing's Chinese sales, analysts say, and help counter a threat from Commercial Aircraft Corp of China Ltd [CMAFC.UL], which is developing a single-aisle aircraft to challenge the top-selling Boeing 737 and Airbus A320 planes.

Xi and Ray Conner, Boeing Commercial Airplanes chief executive, are due on Wednesday to tour the Everett, Washington, factory where Boeing makes widebody planes such as the 777 and 787 Dreamliner. Airbus opened an assembly line in China in 2008 and recently won a landmark, $11 billion order from China.

Boeing CEO Dennis Muilenburg said on Tuesday he sees scope for additional 737 work going to China as the company continues to increase production rates of the single-aisle jetliner.
 

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
Anyway...here's the latest news I found about China's economy.

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Stock market =/= economy, in the case of China. I wouldn't take news on the state of the stock market as reflecting how good the actual economy is doing.

On the actual topic of China's economy, CSIS released a report about gauging China's economy...
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It comes to a few interesting conclusions... one of which is that China's economy is actually likely bigger than the official estimates (for previous years). Also, there is the suggestion that the service sector overtook the industrial sector in 2009 rather than 2012, and that China may become the world's biggest economy a little earlier than some previous estimates.

More importantly, they also claim that China's measuring of GDP is in line with international norms, and that the idea that their GDP measures are fabricated is a misinformed position. Instead it is suggested that the worry over China's GDP measurement is less about how accurate the measures are but how they present it.

If anything, based on their own research and analysis, they suggest that China may be understating its GDP to lower targets to in future which may be more easily met.
 

advill

Junior Member
Good to see the 2 Presidents meeting in the US. Where economic matters are concerned, there should never be a one-sided/upmanship affair. There should be transparency and mutual benefits. I believe Presidents Obama of the US & Xi of China know these aims full well. Let's hope they will come to satisfactory agreements and cooperation in most of aspects regarding trade, business, investments and monetary issues.
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
Good to see the 2 Presidents meeting in the US. Where economic matters are concerned, there should never be a one-sided/upmanship affair. There should be transparency and mutual benefits. I believe Presidents Obama of the US & Xi of China know these aims full well. Let's hope they will come to satisfactory agreements and cooperation in most of aspects regarding trade, business, investments and monetary issues.

Pretty much all of the problems and frictions with the Sino-US relationship stems from the fact that the US is unwilling or unable to treat China as an equal.

China is deeply unhappy with its unequal (and in Beijing's view unfair) treatment and position, and keeps trying to bring the relationship to a more even footing.

The US calls that upsetting the status quo and makes their own push backs to try and maintain their previous (dominant) position.
 

Zool

Junior Member
I don't see counterprime making comments of any sort, only providing an info link, so?
Your fallacy is to present small set of evidence and imply it's that way for the rest of the nation. Least you forget, there are about 320 million people in the US, and it's not unusual to find racism and miscarry of justice in such a large population.

On that point however, and also bringing it back to topic:

US-Chinese relations have been a wave of up's & downs for over 100 years. National discrimination against Chinese was law of the land for many years -
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- and the second greatest persecution of a people in the country after African Americans. That law was repealed later during WW2 and then relations again hit the rocks with the Korean War, until Nixon's visit brought it around again. And on and on that wave seems to go for the history of US-Chinese relations, internally and externally.

What has always been a unifying force for US-Chinese has been Economics. Starting with Chinese labour en mass in creating the massive transport infrastructure of the country and then migrating to laundry and restaurants. It may seem stereotypical to say, but that was the lifeblood of Chinese living in the US for a long time. Even during the troubled times in the relationship it was those economic activities and services that prevented a complete deterioration. And now many years later we still see global economic integration as the linchpin in US-Chinese relations.

I don't know what all that says for the quality and future of the relationship, but it is an interesting observation. I suggest anyone interested in Chinese relations with the US and economic interconnectivity look up information before and after the 'Chinese Exclusion Act' to see how Chinese have adapted in the US and played a major role in the economy from within and without.
 
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