Chinese Economics Thread

solarz

Brigadier
HIf there's anything that China doesn't lack, it's people.

Completely agreed. Many of these western analysts simply do not comprehend the sheer scale and potential of the Chinese population. They do not believe cities can be populated virtually overnight, because they've never seen it happen in their own country during their lifetime. Yet, that is exactly what's happening in China.
 

janjak desalin

Junior Member
(...)They do not believe cities can be populated virtually overnight, because they've never seen it happen in their own country during their lifetime. (...)
Oh they've seen it done alright! They came in to New Orleans like locusts after hurricane Katrina and quickly changed what was once a unique and dynamic cultural-economic landscape into just another typical American city of cookie-cutter, corporate franchises, with hipster hangouts added. The know it can be done; but, do they want to see it done in China?
 
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Equation

Lieutenant General
Oh they've seen it done alright! They came in to New Orleans like locusts after hurricane Katrina and quickly changed what was once a unique and dynamic cultural-economic landscape into just another typical American city of cookie-cutter, corporate franchises, with hipster hangouts added. The know it can be done; but, do they want to see it done in China?

I haven't been back to New Orleans in decades. Has it changed that much after Hurricate Katrina?
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
I have many relatives in Southeast Texas and the area.

The biggest change in New Orleans was the decrease in the population of the city. .

Tens and tens of thousands were moved out of the city due to Katrina's destruction and housed in FEMA camps and then moved around the country.he various cities were residents werre officially moved were Houston, Dallas, Atlanta, and Baton Rouge. Houston probably received the largest number of these I believe.

Also, a large group of people migrated out of the city on their own...into further suburbs of New Orleans.

IMHO, this is what dramatically changed New Orleans.

Before Katrina hit New Orleans in August 2005, the city had a population of 445,000 in the city proper. By 2008, three years after Katrina, the City registered a population of 311,000 in the city proper. That's a reduction of over 30% due to the storm.

This fundamentally changed New Orleans, and in the years since, with the population growing once again, the people and companies moving in are building new homes and new businesses over what was originally there.

By 2010, the population had grown to 343,000. By 2013, it was 378,000. Still not back to pore-storm totals at all...but those coming in are a newer, typically younger, more urban professional, and higher income types of people than the original, poorer, displaced people.

This, IMHO, is what has fundamentally changed New Orleans. I do not believe it was a "planned," or "managed," change. It was more or less a natural consequence of that amount of destruction and then those coming in to buy the land and build it anew..

The same can be said for the coastal areas to the east of New Orleans clear over to Gulf Port, Mississippi. None of those areas are like they used to be. They were more rustic before...but a lot of that was literally wiped clean and now you have new people, new businesses, etc.

But this is far different than what we are talking about in China (and, except as it relates to a comparison, it is also off topic).

In China, with the so-called Ghost Cities, supposedly you have cities being built to receive new inhabitants who would be moved in from rural areas.

This is something, if indeed it is happening, that is planned, and is also something that will not happen overnight either. There is simply still a HUGE population, by any nation's standards, living in the poorer areas that China's government would like to see get out of that level of poverty. China has already brought more people out of poverty than what live in most individual western nations, and they have a ;lot more that they want to do likewise with.

Nothing that happened in New Orleans as a result of Katrina is comparable IMHO, other than large numbers of people moving. The government was involved in the movement and resettling of the poorer people whose homes and livelihoods were destroyed. but it has not really been involved (except for programs at the local level) in migrating other people into New Orleans.

With what we are hearing of in China (if indeed they really exist) the government would be involved with the migration into those cities as a program...and not as a result of a natural disaster.

Anyhow, this is simply as I see it from afar...and we do need to stay on topic.
 
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Wednesday, July 22, 2015
MTR Corporation places largest-ever train order
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HONG KONG's MTR Corporation confirmed on July 22 that it has placed its largest-ever rolling stock order after signing a contract worth around $HK 6bn ($US 770m) with CRRC subsidiary CSR Qingdao Sifang for 93 eight-car trains.

The trains are due to be delivered between 2018 and 2023 and will replace the entire first-generation fleet on the Kwun Tong, Tsuen Wan, Island, and Tseung Kwan O lines.

"This is the largest-ever order for new trains in MTR's history and it represents a critically important investment to maintain our railway service at world-class levels," says MTR CEO Mr Lincoln Leong. "Originally we had planned to replace 78 eight-car trains, which have been in service for about 30 years. But in view of the competitive tenders received and after weighing up the benefits of having a uniform fleet equipped with more up-to-date systems we decided it would be better value-for-money to exercise the option in the tender to replace all 93 first-generation trains in one go."

Passenger features on the new trains will include improved lighting systems, dynamic route maps, double-branched handrails for standing passengers, and a new design of straphanger.
 

Equation

Lieutenant General
China's 10 fastest growing cities.
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102860632-GettyImages-170007941.600x400.jpg

#10 Chengdu
102860635-GettyImages-464058705.600x400.jpg

#9: Zhengzhou


#2: Xiangyang
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#1: Guiyang

I can't post more than five images but you can check it out in the web page.





 

A.Man

Major
As China’s Economic Power Increases, Questions Arise

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china-tmagArticle.jpg

A worker cleans a bullet train at a high speed railway maintenance station during the travel rush period that happens around Chinese Lunar New Year.Credit Jianan Yu/Reuters

HONG KONG — I was waiting for a train in a remote town in southwest China last year when a young man marched up to me and barked out a question: Did I understand and accept that China is a great power?

It was a telling moment.

Had I been waiting at the same train station 10 years, five years, maybe two years earlier, I would have had to catch a slow-moving service that dropped me at Chongqing an hour and a half later. And the young man probably would have been almost deferential to a tall Westerner, and maybe asked whether I liked his hometown. Instead, I was about to catch a bullet train that dropped me at my destination in just 36 minutes. And his bold question underscored the pride Chinese people take in their country’s recent, quick growth, a pride that has fostered a new assertiveness toward China’s neighbors and the West.

Lately I’ve been spending time in small towns in other parts of the world, asking myself and the people I interview similar questions: What does China’s growth mean for them? And how are their lives changing as China turns into an international economic and financial powerhouse with a stake in practically every country?

These questions are far removed from those I asked when I began reporting on China’s economy years ago.

The New York Times transferred me from Detroit to Hong Kong in 2002, and I began visiting manufacturing facilities all over China. The country’s international ascent did not seem assured.

At a car factory in Harbin in northeastern China, I saw the latest, most expensive Japanese and German robots bolted to the floor in what was clearly an impractical layout. When I insisted on going through a door at the back, I found a vast number of workers equipped mostly with hand tools who were putting together cars on an antiquated assembly line.

Now China is the world’s largest car producer; with output that has increased tenfold since I arrived in Asia, and the country’s factories are among the most modern. China’s high-speed rail network is the envy of the world, with full trains leaving as often as every five minutes to take passengers distances that would take three times longer if attempted on United States highways.

China’s prosperity has trickled down to blue-collar workers to an extent seldom appreciated in the West.

When I started visiting mainland Chinese factories near Hong Kong in 2002, workers still lived eight to a room on bunk beds in dormitories with a single window fan, conditions that I still see on reporting trips elsewhere in Asia. Often workers wore the same dull cotton jackets and smocks that their parents wore on the farms they had left, and that they expected to return to one day.

By 2010, when I covered strikes against Japanese-owned factories in southeastern China, I found workers with their own rooms in shared apartments, and even renting studio apartments by themselves, equipped with air-conditioners and DVD players. Their tattered cotton jackets have been replaced by denim, tastefully torn in the right places, with glossy jackets and many-hued tattoos.

Since then, blue-collar wages have surged faster than food prices or rent, though very few earn enough to afford China’s stratospheric apartment prices. The air and water pollution in Chinese factory towns now rank among the worst in the world.

Rapid economic growth has not produced the political liberalization many scholars in the West had predicted. During my early trips to factory towns across China, I noted broad enthusiasm for the United States. But in the years since, attitudes toward the West seem to have hardened, particularly outside of cosmopolitan cities like Beijing or Shanghai.

China is clearly entering an important phase in its evolution. So the timing seemed right for a
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on China’s growing financial and economic importance and its implications for the world, working with a range of colleagues around the world.

America’s policy of “constructive engagement” with China is based partly on the idea that close economic ties might help produce a less authoritarian, less confrontational China. The policy has also been based partly on the worry that if China suffered an economic meltdown, political chaos could ensue.

New questions are starting to surface. What if China replaces the West as the dominant lender and investor in projects around the globe? What does it mean if the main source of foreign investment is a country whose diplomats passionately defend the principle that state leaders around the world have the right to do whatever they want — sometimes including widespread human rights abuse — within their own borders? Will China, having suffered heavy environmental damage during its own industrialization, inflict similar damage on other countries?

Chinese investments in Ecuador and the Ecuadorean oil industry provide a good lens through which to explore the question. Ecuador is obviously a lot closer to the United States than China. It is also a sizable exporter of oil, a commodity of geopolitical interest for readers and statesmen alike. And with natural wonders ranging from the Amazon to the Galápagos Islands, Ecuador is an attractive destination for Americans.

Cliff Krauss, my partner for the first installment of the series of stories about China, brought unique skills to the assignment. He is not only our long-serving Houston bureau chief and chief energy writer, he previously spent many years covering Latin America. Cliff began interviewing American experts and was soon on his way to Ecuador, crisscrossing the country from the jungles of the Amazon and the Chinese embassy in Quito to the fishing port of Manta and the broad plateau where Chinese companies may build a vast oil refinery.

I contacted energy experts in Hong Kong and mainland China and started traveling from my base in Hong Kong to New York, Washington and elsewhere to look for further examples of China’s ever-growing economic and financial influence.

As the year progressed, China’s importance seemed to increase. A succession of American allies broke ranks with the Obama administration in the spring and signed up instead to join the Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank. The International Monetary Fund seems increasingly likely to designate the Chinese RMB as a reserve currency. China’s central bank has begun taking a series of steps to ease controls on overseas investments by the country’s companies.

Two years ago I was at a high-speed train station in Changsha in south-central China; I was surprised to learn that the next 10 bullet trains to Guangzhou, each carrying up to 1,300 people and departing every five minutes, were already sold out, even though it was not a holiday. Many of those at the station were migrant workers, not affluent businesspeople, and they were very proud of China and what it has become.

The question is whether the rest of the world will welcome that speed, drive and determination when it shows up on its doorstep in the form of Chinese foreign investment and overseas lending.

Keith Bradsher is the Hong Kong bureau chief of The New York Times and a senior writer covering Asian economics and business.
 
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