Chinese Economics Thread

[sunnymaxi]

2023 will be the best year for Hong Kong/Macao since Pandemic ..

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HKEX records 2nd-highest half-yearly revenue in H1 2023​

According to the HKEX 2023 Interim Results, its revenue and other income in the first half of 2023 was 10.575 billion HK dollars (about 1.35 billion U.S. dollars), 18 percent higher than a year earlier, and profit attributable to shareholders was 6.312 billion HK dollars, up 31 percent year-on-year.

HONG KONG, Aug. 17 (Xinhua) -- Hong Kong Exchanges and Clearing Limited (HKEX) announced on Wednesday that despite global macro uncertainty and market fragility, its revenue and other income for the first half of 2023 was the second highest reported half-yearly revenue, after the record in H1 2021.

According to the HKEX 2023 Interim Results, its revenue and other income in the first half of 2023 was 10.575 billion HK dollars (about 1.35 billion U.S. dollars), 18 percent higher than a year earlier, and profit attributable to shareholders was 6.312 billion HK dollars, up 31 percent year-on-year.

Average daily turnover in Hong Kong's securities market was 115.5 billion HK dollars, decreased by 16 percent year-on-year, while the exchange-traded fund (ETF) market continued to perform well, with an average daily turnover of 11.7 billion HK dollars, up 21 percent, the report said.

 

[KYli]

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[gpt]

NEW YORK, Aug 17 (Reuters) - China Evergrande (3333.HK), which is the world's most heavily indebted property developer and became the poster child for China's property crisis, on Thursday filed for protection from creditors in a U.S. bankruptcy court.

The company sought protection under Chapter 15 of the U.S. bankruptcy code, which shields non-U.S. companies that are undergoing restructurings from creditors that hope to sue them or tie up assets in the United States.

An affiliate, Tianji Holdings, also sought Chapter 15 protection on Thursday in Manhattan bankruptcy court.

A lawyer for Evergrande did not immediately respond to requests for comment.

Evergrande's filing comes amid growing fears that problems in China's property sector could spread to other parts of the country's economy as growth slows.

Since the sector's debt crisis unfolded in mid-2021, companies accounting for 40% of Chinese home sales have defaulted.

The health of Country Garden (2007.HK), China's largest privately run developer, is also worrying investors after the company missed some interest payments this month.

Evergrande recently had $330 billion of liabilities. A late 2021 default triggered a string of defaults at other builders, resulting in thousands of unfinished homes across China.

In a filing in the Manhattan bankruptcy court, Evergrande said it was seeking recognition of restructuring talks under way in Hong Kong, the Cayman Islands and the British Virgin Islands.

Evergrande has said creditors may be able to vote this month on a restructuring, with possible approval by Hong Kong and British Virgin Islands courts in the first week of September.

The company proposed scheduling a Chapter 15 recognition hearing for Sept. 20.

Last month, Evergrande posted a combined $81 billion loss for 2021 and 2022, prompting investor worries about the viability of a debt restructuring plan it proposed in March.

On Monday, its electric-vehicle unit China Evergrande New Energy Vehicle Group (0708.HK) announced its own proposed restructuring.

That plan called for a $2.7 billion debt-for-equity swap, and a nearly $500 million share sale that would give Dubai-based automaker NWTN (NWTN.O) a 27.5% stake.

Evergrande NEV's combined 2021 and 2022 loss was nearly $10 billion.

Trading in China Evergrande shares was suspended in March 2022.

 

[ansy1968]

NEW YORK, Aug 17 (Reuters) - China Evergrande (3333.HK), which is the world's most heavily indebted property developer and became the poster child for China's property crisis, on Thursday filed for protection from creditors in a U.S. bankruptcy court.

The company sought protection under Chapter 15 of the U.S. bankruptcy code, which shields non-U.S. companies that are undergoing restructurings from creditors that hope to sue them or tie up assets in the United States.

An affiliate, Tianji Holdings, also sought Chapter 15 protection on Thursday in Manhattan bankruptcy court.

A lawyer for Evergrande did not immediately respond to requests for comment.

Evergrande's filing comes amid growing fears that problems in China's property sector could spread to other parts of the country's economy as growth slows.

Since the sector's debt crisis unfolded in mid-2021, companies accounting for 40% of Chinese home sales have defaulted.

The health of Country Garden (2007.HK), China's largest privately run developer, is also worrying investors after the company missed some interest payments this month.

Evergrande recently had $330 billion of liabilities. A late 2021 default triggered a string of defaults at other builders, resulting in thousands of unfinished homes across China.

In a filing in the Manhattan bankruptcy court, Evergrande said it was seeking recognition of restructuring talks under way in Hong Kong, the Cayman Islands and the British Virgin Islands.

Evergrande has said creditors may be able to vote this month on a restructuring, with possible approval by Hong Kong and British Virgin Islands courts in the first week of September.

The company proposed scheduling a Chapter 15 recognition hearing for Sept. 20.

Last month, Evergrande posted a combined $81 billion loss for 2021 and 2022, prompting investor worries about the viability of a debt restructuring plan it proposed in March.

On Monday, its electric-vehicle unit China Evergrande New Energy Vehicle Group (0708.HK) announced its own proposed restructuring.

That plan called for a $2.7 billion debt-for-equity swap, and a nearly $500 million share sale that would give Dubai-based automaker NWTN (NWTN.O) a 27.5% stake.

Evergrande NEV's combined 2021 and 2022 loss was nearly $10 billion.

Trading in China Evergrande shares was suspended in March 2022.

Good NO Government money, The US and Japan should do the same thing and let the Zombie company go bust rather than giving public fund to stay it alive.

 

[Han Patriot]

Good NO Government money, The US and Japan should do the same thing and let the Zombie company go bust rather than giving public fund to stay it alive.

I think their funding was mostly from open markets. It is capitalism at work, you suck you fail.

 

[KYli]

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[Deleted member 23272]

Yes, unfortunately sometimes counterproductive societal / cultural norms are hard to undo even in the face of data / science showing otherwise. In many US firms you see this with RTO mandates. Data has shown long hours do not correlate to increased productivity for years, yet this issue is still prevalent not just in China, but across East Asia and even in many American firms. I mean, in Japan workers are working 12 hour days while hardly spending 50% of that time actually working...

While long working hours may not be the only factor contributing to plunging birth rates, it is highly probable that it does have some degree of negative impact.

In broader terms this is just a reality of the modern world that humans will have to deal with. Even if it was mentioned earlier that America has 40 hour work weeks some high paying industries have hours akin to 996, investment banking and law being the obvious candidates. And even for a lot of places 40 hour work weeks just mean 40 hours in office, everyone gets "homework" such as answering emails after hours.

Most American big tech firms take work life balance seriously and those people are pretty much living the life, but there are of course some that enforce brutal work hours and if you're in startups expect it to take up the majority of your life.

For sure none of this is like China or other East Asian countries where you have to be on call as late as 1 in the morning, but just in general everyone around the world is forced into a rat race and having to put up with it to afford the cost of living. Somewhere down the line there may be a reckoning.

 

[ansy1968]

I think their funding was mostly from open markets. It is capitalism at work, you suck you fail.

That's what I'm saying bro, they thought they're to big to fail and want a lifeline BUT Xi gave them the middle finger and said 去死吧.

 

[TK3600]

All of you calm down. China announced the calculation is being revised as the reason for the pause. It will be resumed soon enough.

Some people here exagerate and say this is China responding to informational warfare. Well, hiding make things look worse, so that is not helping. Maybe the reality is simple, it is a short pause while debate on the method for calculation is ongoing.

 

[tacoburger]

Yeah people are way over-reacting here. Both on this forum, people on the internet and new outlet who keep harping on the chinese collapse narrative. China just emerged from the damaging covid lockdowns, nuking their real estate sector in 2020, the real estate market is still in it's death throes, the aftereffects of the trade war/sanctions with America, a partial decoupling from America/The West, the Ukraine-Russia war, not to mention transitioning from a low value export based manufacturing economy to high value manufacturing services and consumer economy. When the last 3 years have been hit by multiple once a decade defining economic events, yeah no shit the economy is going to be bad. Honestly, I can't think of a single economy that is thriving, even America's recovery is largely fueled by mountains of debt, money printing and an unsustainable real estate boom.

Recessions and economic crisis happen often, sometimes for bullshit reasons, countries have always survived and even thrived afterwards. Honestly, the fact that China has been maintaining positive GDP growth over the last few years is already an impressive feat, considering everything that has been happening. If you looked at times where major economies had their real estate market nuked, they tend to have worldwide recessions.

If anything, sometimes this periods of reccession/low growth/harsh monetary policies can be good for an economy. They allow the country and the market to "cut the fat", killing off the zombie companies that have been limping around on debt, or killing off the unproductive/un-innovative companies that have been surviving on gimmicks or access to easy money. This will allow for the economy to reorient itself. Case in point, killing off the real estate companies in China is causing short term pain now, but will be worth it in the long run.

What's important for China right now is to keep it's people happy, keep it's institutions stable, keep the political situation at home and aboard stable, continue with a stable monetary policy, double down on education and R&D while waiting for shit to settle down. Hopefully things settle down with no new pandemics, no major wars or major geopolitical upheavals. Of course, if the situation is still this bad by say 2025, then maybe you can start to panic and enacting more desperate policies.