Chinese Economics Thread

KYli

Brigadier
Understandably, deflation has many downsides. That's why the Chinese government is actively trying to lower the cost of borrowing and at the same time refinancing mortgage, corporate and local government debts.

Price war over electric cars in China is inevitable. Only a handful of traditional Chinese automakers have embraced electric cars. Those don't have a EV product lineup especially American, German, and Japanese automakers. The only option left is a price war to defend their market share. In this process, many automakers would fold.

I think people have overly scared of deflation due to Japan. Japan's deflation cycle is more or less self-inflicted. Japan central bank allowed an ultra low interest rate or even negative environment to spur growth and development. However, it also maintains a very strong yen. Ultimately, these two conditions have forced many Japanese companies and individuals to invest in the West and other developing countries which depressing the Japan's economy and wages.

Another inaccurate thinking is that unemployment is one of the main factors of deflation. I would point out that Japan has very low unemployment but still couldn't fix its deflation problem. Deflation didn't cause Japanese corporate to fire their workers in mass. People need to remember the reasons why America and Japan were able to enjoy low inflation is due to emerging market especially China's rise. Chinese manufacturing power had effectively kept the prices of many products low for decades. However, as less mainland Chinese are willing to be a factory worker and the labor cost increases, I don't foresee the trend of negative production costs can maintain in sustainable matter. Without cheap goods churn out in Chinese and developing countries' factories, the era of low inflation might have come to end much sooner than many people might have thought.
 
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Minm

Junior Member
Registered Member
Deflation is as bad as inflation but the thing it is more tricky to control. Inflation too high? Raise interest rate, problem solved. Deflation? No economic tool is really effective. Deflation is also coupled with unemployment because firms will cut people off to cut cost. That's why you see massive young unemployment in China. And with more unemployment, it's even harder to prop up demand, lead to more deflation. And the cycle continue.
That's old pre pandemic thinking. Today, the recipe for creating inflation is very well established. Checks in the mail will lead to a consumption led boom very quickly. It's just tricky to avoid generating American style inflation
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
Deflation is as bad as inflation but the thing it is more tricky to control. Inflation too high? Raise interest rate, problem solved.
LOL So simple, yet the US grappled with it for so long. Look at other countries without the tools that the US has; things are 50% more expensive compared to a year ago and still getting worse. Raise interest rate = problem solve? New problem created: sluggish economy.
Deflation? No economic tool is really effective.
Go Google how to cut deflation. I bet you China has this controlled WAYYY faster than America or any Western country grapples with inflation.
Deflation is also coupled with unemployment because firms will cut people off to cut cost. That's why you see massive young unemployment in China. And with more unemployment, it's even harder to prop up demand, lead to more deflation. And the cycle continue.
Addressed by KYli.

Every couple of years, Westerners have to make up some bullcrap about China's economy facing incredible problems. Housing bubble, hard landing, inflation, deflation, youth unemployment, demographic collapse, etc... And then these problems disappear and they move on to some other made up bullshit problem to make themselves feel better. And in the meantime, China just keeps beating them all.
 

tokenanalyst

Brigadier
Registered Member
Inflation too high? Raise interest rate, problem solved.​
Is not that easy to solve as people might think, I REALLY HOPE interest rates work this time because if not we are going to have even worse, stagflation, when nothing helps. There many more examples of economies being totally wrecked by having very high inflation, making everyone poorer, workers seeing their salaries being evaporated by higher and higher prices than by low inflation. The example that everyone thinks about deflation is Japan, "Japanification", if you ask many people if they prefer to live in Japan or in a country with high inflation like Turkey, I think 1000/1000 people will choose Japan.​
That's why you see massive young unemployment in China.​
That was more because the pandemic lockdowns and pop of the Chinese tech bubble who affected high tech employees and giga workers, the "deflation" narrative in MSM started this year, in 2022 china inflation rate was bordering 2-3%, normal rate for most economies.​
 

tokenanalyst

Brigadier
Registered Member
Yeah tell an Argentinian
1691610500953.png
Or a Turk
1691610610237.png
Or a Egyptian
1691610730978.png
How well they have it by having months after months of high inflation with no end in sight while the rest of the economy is no even close of growing at fast as the inflation rate. These economies are done for, they have low to medium GDP growth so they can't rise their Interest Rates anymore or put stimulus, is inflation or low GDP, pick your poison, either way the poor is going to become poorer.
 

james smith esq

Senior Member
Registered Member
Yeah tell an Argentinian
View attachment 116999
Or a Turk
View attachment 117000
Or a Egyptian
View attachment 117001
How well they have it by having months after months of high inflation with no end in sight while the rest of the economy is no even close of growing at fast as the inflation rate. These economies are done for, they have low to medium GDP growth so they can't rise their Interest Rates anymore or put stimulus, is inflation or low GDP, pick your poison, either way the poor is going to become poorer.
It’ll be interesting to see if the July increase in Turkiye is the start of another trend or an anomaly. Based on the pattern established in the chart, it’s the start of another trend.
 

Eventine

Junior Member
Registered Member
That's old pre pandemic thinking. Today, the recipe for creating inflation is very well established. Checks in the mail will lead to a consumption led boom very quickly. It's just tricky to avoid generating American style inflation
I don't think you quite appreciate the complexity of the problem in China's case.

Lowering interest rates is typically the first solution to deflation. Problem: China's interest rates are already low. Lowering them further would depreciate the currency and also encourage more bad investments in the property sector.

The next solution is typically to print money. Problem: when you print money, the currency depreciates, and China's currency is already weak against the dollar. Having the currency depreciate further will affect China's ability to import raw materials, discourage FDI, and also compromise its attempts to make the yuan a reserve currency.

Another solution is to export your way out. The way Germany got past the deflation crisis resulting from the Plaza Accords was, ironically, to actually keep interest rates high, and just tank the deflation while exporting more to make up for lost domestic demand. Problem: global demand is slowing down, and Western demand is further compromised by trade wars and tariffs, so China is not able to export as much as it used to.

If I had to guess, should deflation get worse, China will likely have to spend its reserves to support the yuan while stimulating consumption via helicopter money. This isn't a great situation to be in, but it's the consequence of the virus lock downs wiping out so many small to medium businesses, the war in Ukraine, and also the US's obsession with bringing down inflation via higher interest rates, all of which have come together to cause a demand squeeze in global markets.
 
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