Chinese Economics Thread

[broadsword]

I read an article on china daily about this.
They gave numbers for German, Japanese and Korean brands.
The Chinese brand numbers I remember a few months back from a different article.
These numbers are all automobiles.
For passenger cars, Chinese brands have market share around 40%.

I'm not sure about other brands like US, French, Italian, UK, etc.

Here are the details of the Sept auto sales
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China's auto sales drop in Sept


by Li Fangfang

BEIJING, Oct. 11 (Xinhuanet) -- China's monthly automobile sales dropped year-on-year in September for the first time since February, as sales of Japanese vehicles saw a sharp decrease due to tensions over the Diaoyu Islands.

Total vehicle sales in the country, including passenger vehicles and commercial vehicles, decreased 1.8 percent over last year to 1.62 million units, though production increased 3.7 percent to 1.66 million units during the same period, the China Association of Automobile Manufacturers said on Wednesday.

The commercial vehicle infutry registered sales of 301,800 units in September, down 7.6 percent from the same period last year.

Passenger vehicle sales dropped 0.3 percent year-on-year to 1.32 million units, the association said, attributing the lackluster market performance to the sales dive of Japanese brands.

In September, the combined sales of Japanese vehicles in China stood at 160,000 units, 29.49 percent lower than in August, and down 40.82 percent year-on-year, the association data showed.

"The Japanese automakers' sales decline will continue for a long time," said Dong Yang, general secretary of the China Association of Automobile Manufacturers . "The Japanese government should build a peaceful relationship with neighboring countries to reach long-term economic development across Asia."

The tension with Japan boosted sales of cars from other countries.

German cars' sales were up 13.8 percent, South Korean brands saw a 9.4 percent increase, US brands rose 15.1 percent, and French brands increased 9.2 percent.

The Japanese brands' share of total passenger vehicles sales declined 6.46 percentage points to 12.16 percent, while China's homegrown brands took the opportunity to increase their market share by 6.29 percentage points to 42.72 percent in September.

Sales of Chinese passenger vehicles increased 26.55 percent from August to 561,900 units in September, up 7.51 percent year-on-year.

Shanghai GM, FAW-Volkswagen and Shanghai Volkswagen are still the top three automakers measured by passenger vehicle sales. Japanese joint ventures were out of the top 10 list.

Toyota Motor Corp, Japan's biggest automaker by sales, reported the highest year-on-year decline since January 2008 as its sales dived 48.9 percent to 44,100 units in September.

Honda Motor Co also saw its lowest sales since May 2011 in September with 33,931 units, a 40.5 percent drop from a year earlier.

The US automakers General Motors and Ford Motor Co both reported record-high September sales, while the sales of South Korea's Hyundai Motor Co and its affiliate Kia Motors Corp also reached an all-time high.

The consulting firm IHS Automotive estimates that the total production and sales of Japanese automakers in the domestic market will drop by 200,000 units this year.

 

[jobjed]

Sorry but I blame all this on the Chinese leaders' timid attitude.

Patience my young padawan...

The Han Dynasty waited for generations before they deemed themselves fit for combat with the Xiongnu in the north. The Chinese civilisation is not the longest lasting due to their rash decision making and lust for conflict. All the great civilisations in the world have rose and fell with the exception of China, Greece was never united, thus they were eventually supplanted and conquered by the Romans. Rome was too aggressive in too short an amount of time; had they gave their population the chance to grow, their armies might have been composed of higher percentages of ethnic Romans and not conquered people. But since they didn't, their own armies of which most were not even composed of ethnic Romans but simply assimilated peoples were not dependable in Rome's time of need. Learn from history; aggressiveness when you're not ready for it spells disaster. China must first ensure internal stability before progressing with more retaliatory policies for the sake of future generations of Chinese.

 

[Equation]

This current Chinese leadership is too scared.
They do nothing while America and Europe puts tariffs on Chinese exports, bans Chinese investment, discriminates against Chinese companies.
What exactly has Chinese leaders done?

Just taken punches.

I'll tell you what, if china responds EXTREMELY hard to American discrimination by banning google and other companies on national security grounds, banning all American NGOs, banning American companies from government procurement projects, deport American media that spew garbage about china while reporting in china (like they did to al jazeera).....the Americans will think twice before they decide to 'get tough on china'.

Right now the Chinese are easy targets for Americans and they know Chinese leaders won't retaliate, so they keep jabbing china. China is now everyone's punching bag.
Chinese leaders should have got very tough early and nipped it in the bud and show the Americans that china will retaliate in no uncertain terms to any discrimination or protectionism from ANY foreign country.

Now even India and Brazil are starting to become protectionist as they follow America knowing Chinese leaders will do nothing.

Expect pretty much all Chinese industries to get discriminated against because of very weak leadership in china.

A company like google is a CIA tool used to spy on people. Facebook too. But Chinese leaders crumbled when google started to take on china. Chinese leaders should have banned them completely without exceptions.

Sorry but I blame all this on the Chinese leaders' timid attitude.

Wait till the new leadership change over, and the US Presidential election is done, things will move much more responsive. The current leadership ares standing their ground on the Daioyu Island dispute.

 

[AssassinsMace]

I like how Japan just gave one to China to use as an example to all these neighboring countries hiding behind US power. Look at the supposed Japan, South Korea, US alliance against China that was all the rave a while back. Something happened to get Japan and South Korea at each other's nerves to sour relations once again. Now a real test should be a boycott of France, a Western status symbol. I've mentioned the BBC global poll where Germans have the worst opinion of the Chinese out of all Western countries. I'm reading another different poll where the French now are on top. If the Chinese people can manage a boycott of the French luxury industry that is staying afloat in these hard times because of Chinese consumers, that would be a major step forward in Chinese thinking.

 

[cn_habs]

So the right wing extremist comes back begging while trying to not lose face:

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China’s backlash against the move saw Toyota Motor Corp. (7203) and Nissan Motor Co. suffer their biggest month drop in Chinese car sales since at least 2008 in September. JPMorgan Chase & Co. sees a 0.8 percentage-point hit to Japan’s gross domestic product from the China dispute this quarter.

I'd straightforwardly ignore any attempt from the Japanese government as long as they consider the island Japanese.

 

[J-XX]

Patience my young padawan...

The Han Dynasty waited for generations before they deemed themselves fit for combat with the Xiongnu in the north. The Chinese civilisation is not the longest lasting due to their rash decision making and lust for conflict. All the great civilisations in the world have rose and fell with the exception of China, Greece was never united, thus they were eventually supplanted and conquered by the Romans. Rome was too aggressive in too short an amount of time; had they gave their population the chance to grow, their armies might have been composed of higher percentages of ethnic Romans and not conquered people. But since they didn't, their own armies of which most were not even composed of ethnic Romans but simply assimilated peoples were not dependable in Rome's time of need. Learn from history; aggressiveness when you're not ready for it spells disaster. China must first ensure internal stability before progressing with more retaliatory policies for the sake of future generations of Chinese.

But when is it ever the 'perfect' moment to take action?
What/when is the point that china says that it's strong enough to take on anyone?

I get what you are saying, and the more chips at the table china has the more leverage and influence china will have.
But just look at how china increased regulations to the banana exports from Philippines to get the Philippines to tone down its aggressiveness.
Economic and financial power must be used to benefit your strategic geopolitical interests.
As time goes by, china will close the gap with the US, so yes it's probably wise to wait a few more years when china has alot more power.

The US never shy away from using its economic and financial power.....just look at they use it on Iran.
Denying market access, denying access to US financial system, not allowed to use the dollar, not allowed to do business with American companies,etc

 

[jackliu]

But when is it ever the 'perfect' moment to take action?
What/when is the point that china says that it's strong enough to take on anyone?

I get what you are saying, and the more chips at the table china has the more leverage and influence china will have.
But just look at how china increased regulations to the banana exports from Philippines to get the Philippines to tone down its aggressiveness.
Economic and financial power must be used to benefit your strategic geopolitical interests.
As time goes by, china will close the gap with the US, so yes it's probably wise to wait a few more years when china has alot more power.

The US never shy away from using its economic and financial power.....just look at they use it on Iran.
Denying market access, denying access to US financial system, not allowed to use the dollar, not allowed to do business with American companies,etc

US is NOT Philippines, China still lacks behind US is many ways even if they are catching up fast. And you wouldn't want to see US and China goes head on like they did with Soviet Union, I won't say who will win, but no one will benefit.

Right now biggest problem is that US don't respect China, it still does not see it as it is equal, a large part of US leadership still treat China no better than some banana republic. This is good for China somewhat as US underestimate it, on the other hand China already have more influence on US than you might think. The large quantity of debt it holds, the vast amount of US corporate interest it hold in China etc... all serves as excellent deterrence on US going stupid on China. A little trade dispute here and there is not going to do much, the overall trend still benefit China in this trade arrangement, and there is really not much US can do about it, unless it wants to anger the business class, and we all know they are the ones that truly control US politics.

And there is no guarantee both nation will end up as full blown enemies, as China get stronger and more entangled with US interest, there is a possibility both nation will agree to cooperate and divide up the world according to their own interest.

 

[jackliu]

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Goes into detail on how US government uses "national security" excuse for economic protectionism.

 

[antiterror13]

Incredible map of China's expressway openings in recent 2 years

Just saw in other forum. really nice map with notes

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[Quickie]

I like how Japan just gave one to China to use as an example to all these neighboring countries hiding behind US power. Look at the supposed Japan, South Korea, US alliance against China that was all the rave a while back. Something happened to get Japan and South Korea at each other's nerves to sour relations once again. Now a real test should be a boycott of France, a Western status symbol. I've mentioned the BBC global poll where Germans have the worst opinion of the Chinese out of all Western countries. I'm reading another different poll where the French now are on top. If the Chinese people can manage a boycott of the French luxury industry that is staying afloat in these hard times because of Chinese consumers, that would be a major step forward in Chinese thinking.

It seems that Italians are too having issue with the Chinese presence in Italy. Hopefully the Italian guy is not representative of the rest. In the same video, there are 2 Italians who seem more understanding.

[video]http://rockcenter.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/10/12/14392020-presto-designer-products-made-by-chinese-get-made-in-italy-stamp#__utma=238145375.479368675.1342969813.135007 1704.1350128032.196&__utmb=238145375.1.10.1350128032&__utmc=238145375&__utmx=-&__utmz=238145375.1350128032.196.9.utmcsr=nbcnews.c om|utmccn=(referral)|utmcmd=referral|utmcct=/&__utmv=238145375.|8=Earned%20By=msnbc%7Cworld%20ne ws=1^12=Landing%20Content=Mixed=1^13=Landing%20Hos tname=www.msnbc.msn.com=1^30=Visit%20Type%20to%20C ontent=Internal%20to%20Mixed=1&__utmk=1650034[/video]


Presto! Designer products made by Chinese get 'Made in Italy' stamp
Fri Oct 12, 2012 9:50 AM EDT.Rock Center

ONLINE EXCLUSIVE Three powerful words: "Made in Italy." They conjure up images of the great Italian designers: Dolce & Gabana, Prada, Valentino.

And as a brand, "Made in Italy" doesn't come cheap.

Customers pay 10, 20, or even 100 times more for a handbag or dress that's made in Italy, compared to one made in China. "Made in Italy" fashion and design is a $30 billion annual export business.

Buyers expect luxury cloth produced on the best machines, monitored by fussy Italians, who know their stuff. But there is another side to products branded "Made in Italy."


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rock Center visited a sweatshop in an old warehouse in Prato, the center of Italian textile production since the Renaissance, where Chinese workers are paid as little as $2 a day. Many of them are illegal. They work with cheap Chinese materials that are also often smuggled in.

What they produce gets labels that say "Made in Italy," put in boxes that say "Made in Italy."

What they're making isn't illegal. The Chinese aren't making knock offs, or fake purses. They're knocking off the entire "Made in Italy" brand name.

Italian law doesn't specify how much must be made in the country to be considered local. So if a few buttons are sewn on in Italy, Presto! It's made in Italy.

Click here to watch Richard Engel's exclusive online report 'Made in Italy.'
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