Chinese Economics Thread

windsclouds2030

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I'm hearing a lot about Evergrande problems in the MSM these days. Will it become systemic issue similar to the 08?
I guess at most the state let the private company goes bankrupt. There are many hedge fund investors in that real estate developer, if it goes bankrupt, the share and bond holders will share the financial losses too, domestic and foreign. That is not the task of the state to prop the private entity with public funding. China ain't the USA! But that's okay after being bankrupt that some SOE may take over the company and its business at much haircut price. The MSM make lots of noises because some Wall Street speculate in that huge property company. They may expect the state to lend a hand and infuse that company with funding.
 

drowingfish

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...

This transformation will wash away all the dust: capital markets will no longer be paradise for get-rich-quick capitalists, cultural markets will no longer be heaven for sissy-boy stars, and news and public opinion will no longer be in the position of worshipping western culture. It is a return to the revolutionary spirit, a return to heroism, a return to courage and righteousness. We need to bring all forms of cultural chaos under control and build a vibrant, healthy, virile, intrepid, and people-oriented culture. We need to combat the manipulation of capital markets by big capital, fight platform-based monopolies, prevent bad money from driving out the good, and ensure the flow of capital to high-tech companies, manufacturers and companies operating in the real economy. The ongoing restructuring of private tutoring organizations and school districts will clean up the chaos in the educational system, bring about a true return to accessibility and fairness, and give ordinary people room for upward mobility. In the future, we must also bring high housing prices and exorbitant medical expenses under control, and completely level the “
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” of education, medical care, and housing. Although we are not trying to “kill the rich to aid the poor,” we need to find a practical solution to a worsening income gap that allows the rich to keep getting richer while the poor keep getting poorer. Common prosperity means allowing ordinary workers to enjoy a larger share of the social distribution of wealth. This transformation will bring a breath of fresh air to our society. Current efforts to crack down on the arts, entertainment, film and television spheres are not nearly robust enough. We must use all the means at our disposal to strike down various forms of celebrity worship and fan culture, stamp out “pretty-boy” and “sissy-boy” tendencies in our national character, and ensure that our arts, entertainment, film and television spheres are truly upright and upstanding. Those working in the arts, entertainment, film and television must go down to the grassroots, and allow ordinary workers and citizens to become the protagonists, to play the leading roles in our literature and art.

China faces an increasingly fraught and complex international landscape as the United States menaces China with worsening military threats, economic and technological blockades, attacks on our financial system, and attempts at political and diplomatic isolation. The U.S. is waging biological warfare, cyber warfare, space warfare and public opinion battles against China, and is ramping up efforts to foment a “color revolution” by mobilizing a fifth column within China. If we rely on the barons of capitalism to battle the forces of imperialism and hegemony, if we continue our obeisance to
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, if we allow this generation of young people to lose their mettle and masculinity, then who needs an enemy—we will have brought destruction upon ourselves, much like the Soviet Union back in the day, when it allowed the nation to disintegrate, its wealth to be looted, and its population to sink into calamity. The profound transformations now taking place in China are a direct response to an increasingly fraught and complex international landscape, and a direct response to the savage and violent attacks that the U.S. has already begun to launch against China.

Every one of us can sense that a profound social transformation is underway, and it is not limited to the realm of capital or entertainment. It is not enough to make superficial changes, to tear down what is already rotten; we must go deeper, and scrape the poison from the bone. We must clean the house and clear the air to make our society a healthier one, and to make all members of our society happy in body and mind.
people's daily already clarified its support for private companies. since people's daily reports to Wang Huning, that's two heavyweights speaking out now. Beijing is already trying to cool things down.
 

ChongqingHotPot92

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Li Guangman Assessment of China’s Critical Changes

In his blog post, Li Guangman’s argument that a revolution is currently taking place in China is premised upon the following evidence:

1) the government has realized China’s entertainment circle is rotten to the core, the stars stink, and they should held accountable for their misbehavior, speculation, and tax evasion;

2) Celebrities with pro-American and pro-Japanese sentiments, such as Zhao Wei, Zhang Zhehan, and Gao Xiaosong, are being publicly shamed and cracked down upon, such as being removed from online platforms;

3) the CCP ran a big campaign to celebrate its first centennial and continues to call upon its members to not forget its original pledge (不忘初心);

4) the central government is taking aggressive actions to regulate private industry (such as the gaming industry, including Tecent), fight monopolies (Meituan), and stop private companies from holding IPOs overseas (Ants & Didi);

5) and, it is now looking into the feasibility of a third distribution of wealth with a view towards common prosperity (共同富裕).

Li writes, “All these tell us critical changes are taking place in China and these changes are economic, financial, cultural and political. In other words, this is a significant revolution, a return from the capitalist camp to the people’s camp, a pivot from the capital-focused center to the people-focused center. Therefore, it is a political transformation and people are the engine of this transformation. All those forces that attempt to stop this transformation will be abandoned.” In other words, the events taking place are about a return to the initial roots of the CPP: a return to the people and a return to the essence of socialism.

Another important dimension of Li’s blog is that China is in the middle of an epic rivalry with the United States. He argues that Washington’s China policy includes military threats, economic decoupling, and diplomatic isolation. Furthermore, he argues the US has launched a biological war, cyberwar, public opinion war, and space war against China, and seeks to foment a Color Revolution through a Fifth Column inside China. At this critical juncture, he argues that, to allow big capital to control China’s finance, to permit U.S. to deploy a ‘nipple’ strategy (using entertainment to poison and numb young people), and to have China’s youth lose vigor and fighting spirit is tantamount to repeating the tragedy of the Soviet Union.

What is Hu Xijin’s dissent?

Importantly, Hu Xijin does not dispute the facts listed by Li Guangman. What he strongly disagrees with, however, is what these events mean. To Hu, recent actions by the Chinese government and CCP are policies designed to regulate the market, to stop capital from barbaric growth, and to restore social justice and equality. In other words, the goal of these policies is about improving effective governance and gradual social progress— they have nothing to do with a seismic revolution.

Hu’s central argument is that China is politically united with its existing governance mechanisms, which he writes are orderly and efficient. This is, as Hu argues, the very reason that China could sustain a massive trade war and a frontal assault from the US. This is also the very reason that China has successfully contained COVID-19, which has generated so many problems for Western nations. Hu asks why a successful country like China needs to mobilize for a “revolution”? Who will be the targets of this “revolution”? China has undergone and is still undergoing transformation, even critical transformation, because reform is about transformation.

Hu continues in his blog that he works for the CCP and has daily public and private interactions with government officials. He writes that he has never seen or heard anything remotely connected to a beginning of a revolution to usher in a new order and a political campaign designed to correct fundamental flaws in the Chinese system of governance. Furthermore, Hu writes that Li’s blog describes changes in China as revolutionary “as if China is going to bid farewell to the era of reform and opening up and to go for an overthrow of the current order.” This is deeply misleading, seriously erroneous, and cynically populist. This kind of rhetoric has to be stopped.

What does the Li-Hu debate signify?

In both its message and propagation by state media networks, Li Guangman’s blog can be compared to the first dazibao that was posted to a Peking University wall in the early summer of 1966. What we do not know is who is behind the effort to amplify Li’s voice? What is even more intriguing are the circumstances of Hu Xijin’s daring critique of Li Guangman. Hu is an insider with strong knowledge of how the Chinese government approaches propaganda. Either his own conscience has dictated his behavior, or he was encouraged by someone inside the government to challenge Li Guangman— perhaps someone wants him to speak up and test the limitations of acceptable discourse before they speak up themselves? Or, perhaps, insiders want to test the waters of public opinion before another government decision is made?

There is one thing for certain: this debate indicates there is raging debate inside the CCP on the merits of reform and opening up, on where China is today in terms of social and political stability, and about what kind of nation China wants to become.

In terms of U.S.-China relations, the downturn is giving Li Guangman and the like fodder for their diatribe. There are even scholars in China who warn this is Washington’s strategy— that it is using the downturn in US-China relations to break Chinese political unity, as mentioned by Hu, and achieve its goal of containing China once and for all. In any case, those in China who want to see another revolution and overthrow what the nation has accomplished are either ignorant of what the Chinese people truly want or are so blinded by their own ambition that they disregard the pulse of the Chinese people.

Hu Xijin is certainly aware of the huge stakes in this debate. In today’s China, it takes courage to speak out. For this, I commend him.
Similar things happened back in 2018. There was an article published by an insider arguing that private enterprises had finished their purposes, and it was now necessary for them to go down the dustbins of history. Roughly a week after that article was published, People's Daily had to come out and calm people's nerves. 50 days later, Xi published an article on Xinhua criticizing those calling for an end to private enterprises and market economy after hosting some of the most influential national capitalists in Zhongnanhai. Just like this time, the rebuffs by both the People's Daily and CCP top officials serve to calm the nerves after a radical leftist insider publishes something that scares the hack out of private entrepreneurs.

However, the fact that these well-connected radical leftists are allowed to publish something like that (especially the 2018 article calling for an end to private enterprises) could be a subtle warning that the CCP has the potential to become nasty should private entrepreneurs refuse to listen to the Party and demand more political power. In other words, subtly play the Maoist card (with plausible deniability) to scare those (like Jack Ma) who dares to use the power of capital to challenge the Party in the name of "freedom" and "market." That means should private entrepreneurs seek freedom at the expense of the Party and other Chinese citizens, the Maoist stick (Iron Fist of Socialism) is always there to hit them, reminding them who is in charge. Maybe this is why there is a double-standard in the censorship rules favoring leftists. Because the leftists and populists could always be mobilized to keep freedom-seeking entrepreneurs in line with the Party.

In fact, the CCP is behaving similarly to previous dynasties. No capable emperor would ever allow any private entrepreneurs to become powerful enough to establish an alternative power base outside of the Imperial system, but the emperor must rely on private capital to create job opportunities, stabilize the empire, and perform certain low-level administrative duties.
 

Bellum_Romanum

Brigadier
Registered Member
Similar things happened back in 2018. There was an article published by an insider arguing that private enterprises had finished their purposes, and it was now necessary for them to go down the dustbins of history. Roughly a week after that article was published, People's Daily had to come out and calm people's nerves. 50 days later, Xi published an article on Xinhua criticizing those calling for an end to private enterprises and market economy after hosting some of the most influential national capitalists in Zhongnanhai. Just like this time, the rebuffs by both the People's Daily and CCP top officials serve to calm the nerves after a radical leftist insider publishes something that scares the hack out of private entrepreneurs.

However, the fact that these well-connected radical leftists are allowed to publish something like that (especially the 2018 article calling for an end to private enterprises) could be a subtle warning that the CCP has the potential to become nasty should private entrepreneurs refuse to listen to the Party and demand more political power. In other words, subtly play the Maoist card (with plausible deniability) to scare those (like Jack Ma) who dares to use the power of capital to challenge the Party in the name of "freedom" and "market." That means should private entrepreneurs seek freedom at the expense of the Party and other Chinese citizens, the Maoist stick (Iron Fist of Socialism) is always there to hit them, reminding them who is in charge. Maybe this is why there is a double-standard in the censorship rules favoring leftists. Because the leftists and populists could always be mobilized to keep freedom-seeking entrepreneurs in line with the Party.

In fact, the CCP is behaving similarly to previous dynasties. No capable emperor would ever allow any private entrepreneurs to become powerful enough to establish an alternative power base outside of the Imperial system, but the emperor must rely on private capital to create job opportunities, stabilize the empire, and perform certain low-level administrative duties.
Interesting observation. Something to ponder, think, and read more about.
 

windsclouds2030

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Translation of the much talked about essay by Li Guangman:
...
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We may read this particular article with certain interest, yet we must realize that this media, regardless its luring name "China Digital Times" is an ANTI-Mainland China site being sponsored among others by George Soros OSF/OSI and the US NED.

The translation work is so smooth for such difficult subject, indicates it's a work done by some professional translator, so I feel much curious why I am not familiar with it at all even its name carries some weight -- imagine "China Digital Times" -- thus I dig a little. Then I realize.

About this media:

"China Digital Times" is based in Berkeley, CA, USA

"We introduce the perspectives of Chinese netizens; archive content that has been or is in danger of being censored in China; and, through translation, make these voices accessible to the world."

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China Digital Times - ABOUT.png

CDT SPONSORS
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CDT is supported by the Counter-Power Lab out of the School of Information at the University of California, Berkeley.

CDT has also benefited from the support of UC Berkeley’s Graduate School of Journalism, Institute of East Asian Studies, Boalt School of Law, and Center for Information Technology Research in the Interest of Society (CITRIS) at the College of Engineering. Special thanks also to Jack and Dorothy Edelman, John D. and Catherine MacArthur Foundation, Open Society Institute, Internews, HIVOS International, Open Technology Fund, the Wild Thyme Fund, the National Endowment for Democracy (NED), and an anonymous donor for their generous support over the years. CDT is also grateful for the many donations from our readers.

China Digital Times - SPONSOR.png

Just take a look at what this media covers about China then one will quickly see its real standing, all the negative framing of mainland China!
 
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sndef888

Captain
Registered Member
Capitalism/market economy is still mostly the most efficient form of economic governance, at least until there is some form of advanced economic planning AI so there is no purpose in any dramatic move against private businesses

Only thing is to watch out for capitalist class overstepping boundaries like trying to exploit market failures (ant financial loans, private tuition), create monopolies (didi, huya), influence politics, ignoring regulation (data privacy)

China is in fact doing very well in cracking down on capitalist overreach. These short term pains will be beneficial in the long run
 

Bellum_Romanum

Brigadier
Registered Member
We may read this particular article with certain interest, yet we must realize that this media, regardless its luring name "China Digital Times" is an ANTI-Mainland China site being sponsored among others by George Soros OSF/OSI and the US NED.

The translation work is so smooth for such difficult subject, indicates it's a work done by some professional translator, so I feel much curious why I am not familiar with it at all even its name carries some weight -- imagine "China Digital Times" -- thus I dig a little. Then I realize.

About this media:

"China Digital Times" is based in Berkeley, CA, USA

"We introduce the perspectives of Chinese netizens; archive content that has been or is in danger of being censored in China; and, through translation, make these voices accessible to the world."

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

View attachment 77005

CDT SPONSORS
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

CDT is supported by the Counter-Power Lab out of the School of Information at the University of California, Berkeley.

CDT has also benefited from the support of UC Berkeley’s Graduate School of Journalism, Institute of East Asian Studies, Boalt School of Law, and Center for Information Technology Research in the Interest of Society (CITRIS) at the College of Engineering. Special thanks also to Jack and Dorothy Edelman, John D. and Catherine MacArthur Foundation, Open Society Institute, Internews, HIVOS International, Open Technology Fund, the Wild Thyme Fund, the National Endowment for Democracy (NED), and an anonymous donor for their generous support over the years. CDT is also grateful for the many donations from our readers.

View attachment 77006

Just take a look at what this media covers about China then one will quickly see its real standing, all the negative framing of mainland China!
Great find. As always with this ghouls they will try a way to foment and push for political instability or at least try to take advantage of the current political debate within the country and try to play off one faction against the other thereby creating an opening for these monkeys to come in and harvest on the discord.
 
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