Chinese Economics Thread

[LesAdieux]

How is CPC supposedly claiming that capital controls policy in the West disproven by China's relationship with Australia, Japan, and the US? How would it look like if capital were in control of policy in the West? I mean in your version of reality that is. Because it's so abundantly clear that capital is in fact in control of much of western policy. It's not an absolute thing but you have failed to support your point outside of the usual "this is what I think and it's correct".

capital plays big part in the West, CPC is in total control of China. there's a difference between the two.

 

[LesAdieux]

Having a responsible and competent government in control of everything is much better than having a capitalist corporate interest in control, i will quote a member here who explained it perfectly below

"the capitalists will always exploit the workers for maximum profit. Take for example Amazon.
Jeff Bezos is worth over $100B while many of Amazon workers have little rest, there were even rumors that people in amazon has to wear a diaper to minimize bathroom breaks. People worked just to get enough for food and basic necessities. And this is not only limited to amazon but in all capitalist environments
because of this cutthroat competition and winner takes all nature of a capitalist system, industries will be left with very few gigantic monopolies. That is why we are seeing all of these

1.) google
2.) facebook
3.) in case for China in this post, there is Alipay and wechat Pay duopoly that controls so much of the digital payments system in China.
4.) etc

The Chinese leaders after Mao realized Mao's mistake. There is no shortcut to communism; one cannot achieve socialism without money; so instead they revived the merchant class but with a twist; private enterprises are back but all strategic industries are state owned. So that is why we have those gigantic Chinese state owned enterprises because it was consolidated and all small enterprises were let go. These strategic industries are the biggest money makers and it just make sense the money will go back to the state. Back in late 1970's there is no way for the authorities to know what future industries that might be dominated by private enterprises. So this is the historical background of those Chinese SOEs. They are needed to achieve socialism and to minimize the adverse impact of capitalism that will naturally come along with private enterprises"

dangerous assumptions: CPC is competent and responsible, the capitalists are very bad, CPC will take care everyone. we've been here before, it's total disaster.

the fundamental way to reduce risk is diversification: let people take care of themselves.

 

[ougoah]

capital plays big part in the West, CPC is in total control of China. there's a difference between the two.

Yes to all that. But your original whinge was about capital being in control of the west according to big bad CPC. It was a directionless whinge with no point being made.

CPC is in control of China. Capital class controls the West. CPC doesn't wish for Western capitalists to control China. But where is the problem?

 

[ougoah]

dangerous assumptions: CPC is competent and responsible, the capitalists are very bad, CPC will take care everyone. we've been here before, it's total disaster.

the fundamental way to reduce risk is diversification: let people take care of themselves.

Agreed. We need to use track record and performance metrics to assess competency. Here the CPC indeed has been very good and still is. Until it isn't, China would need to re-evaluate and act upon it. Whatever it changes to will still not be agreeable to the Western elites simply because they don't own it or control it to the level they desire. Ergo, CPC is good for China now and when it isn't it will be changed slowly into something that is better for it. In either case, we want the Western capitalists away from the reigns. History has taught us that is disastrous for a local people.

Right now CPC is competent and responsible to a point. It is flawed but not as bad as many other places on Earth.

 

[LesAdieux]

Agreed. We need to use track record and performance metrics to assess competency. Here the CPC indeed has been very good and still is. Until it isn't, China would need to re-evaluate and act upon it. Whatever it changes to will still not be agreeable to the Western elites simply because they don't own it or control it to the level they desire. Ergo, CPC is good for China now and when it isn't it will be changed slowly into something that is better for it. In either case, we want the Western capitalists away from the reigns. History has taught us that is disastrous for a local people.

Right now CPC is competent and responsible to a point. It is flawed but not as bad as many other places on Earth.

The tremendous success of the past 40 years raises a question: where should the credit go? to me it's Deng the Great, made all these possible. Marxists and Maoists have been trying to steal the credit, and Xi has been walking back systematically.

 

[ougoah]

The tremendous success of the past 40 years raises a question: where should the credit go? to me it's Deng the Great, made all these possible. Marxists and Maoists have been trying to steal the credit, and Xi has been walking back systematically.

Credit for organising the country and providing the stability goes to CPC. Maoists are long gone so how can they be trying to "steal the credit" now? Xi seems to be walking back to the social and economic attitudes of that era because that's what is considered the correct move perhaps. As opposed to Xi being some sort of one man emperor. I don't put stock in those ideas as much as the President of PRC certainly wields far more political power than their equivalent in another country.

 

[horse]

"capital controls everything in the West" is a lie propagated by commies, especially CPC. look at China's relationship with Australia, Japan and the US, if capital were in control, it wouldn't look like this.

CPC is certainly in control of everything and everyone's life in China, it seems you are proud of that. CPC actually doesn't deny its control, it's only trying to say that control by CPC is better than that of capital.

Capital does not control everything in the west.

Capital is above the government in the west.

That is indisputable. Capital has the biggest voice, and they call the shots in America.

As for Australia, Japan, and the United States, it certainly appears one of them is above the other two.

Furthermore, the United States has tried to crackdown on Huawei, so the United States can lead the 5G roll out which is suppose to usher in the 4th industrial revolution. Who leads in this new industrialization using big data, connectivity, etc., will reap rewards, in that the first movers will make the money. It is still about the money.

 

[KYli]

Where is Wall St when China got sanctions from left to right? Now Wall St is so scare because China is going after their money cow.

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China’s Attacks on Tech Are a Losing Strategy in Cold War II​

Forcing DiDi and Alibaba to toe the Communist Party line may help Xi build a police state but will stall the nation’s dynamic industry.

 

[PUFF_DRAGON]

The tremendous success of the past 40 years raises a question: where should the credit go? to me it's Deng the Great, made all these possible. Marxists and Maoists have been trying to steal the credit, and Xi has been walking back systematically.

This is in my opinion a fairly puerile understanding of developmental economics and Chinese history.

If you are going to attribute the last 40 years of hyper growth to Deng Xiaoping and Deng Xiaoping alone, then you'll need to consider a few things.
1. Deng Xiaoping was also responsible for the disastrous hyper inflation of the 1980s that culminated in said man having to fight off a near revolution in the streets of Beijing with literal tanks.
2. The developmental strategy and challenges of running a country with per capita GDP less than $1000 are much different than running a nation with GDP per capita over $10,000.
3. The external environment: Deng Xiaoping operated in a much more favorable global diplomatic and macro-economic environment for China than either Hu Jintao or Xi Jinping.

 

[Gatekeeper]

Guys. Why are we arguing about capitalism? It's all very simple, really.