Chinese Economics Thread

[FriedRiceNSpice]

Wow, you really live in a parallel universe

Entry level software engineers at top tech companies in Bay Area and NYC is about 150k. Just about 20-30k lower in Seattle. As been said, this figure is not achievable in vast majority of US cities, but it is easily achievable in the specific three metropolitan areas, and maybe a small handful of others (definitely not entry level though). Competent engineers in these three areas should easily be looking at total compensation in the 250-400k range within 5-10yrs. Of course, this still represents a small but significant minority of all software engineers in the US, only possible at tier one tech companies and certain financial institutions. Outside of software, you can reach same levels at the most expensive metro areas in finance, pharma, and certain other science and engineering fields by early to mid career. Of course, in medicine and law, 150k is trivial in any economically competitive urban area in the US, but those fields come with delayed earning as well as extremely high investments in education.

For comparison, entry level salaries for software engineering in China might start at only 300k RMB, but 1-2million RMB is achievable for the best engineers at top Chinese tech companies in Beijing, Shenzhen, and Shanghai. The main difference is the competition is a lot tougher in those cities compared to NYC/Bay Area/Seattle.

For comparison, entry level software engineers in Shenzhen might only start at 300k RMB,

 

[vincent]

You think two married white collar, young professionals working in finance or tech can’t make $200k? What universe are your living in?

I know a U of Waterloo CS new grad got a job at Google with salary+bonus over $100k. But how many of those job really exist? Much of IT jobs were outsourced to India

 

[FriedRiceNSpice]

I know a U of Waterloo CS new grad got a job at Google with salary+bonus over $100k. But how many of those job really exist? Much of IT jobs were outsourced to India

A lot of those jobs are still here. You can only offshore the mundane hard to screw up jobs. The most promising engineers from India are bought here on H1 visas, even at much increased cost.

 

[Petrolicious88]

I know a U of Waterloo CS new grad got a job at Google with salary+bonus over $100k. But how many of those job really exist? Much of IT jobs were outsourced to India

Pay is a lot lower in Canada compared to US.

And well paying jobs are usually not the type that are outsourced to India.

 

[solarz]

Entry level software engineers at top tech companies in Bay Area and NYC is about 150k. Just about 20-30k lower in Seattle. As been said, this figure is not achievable in vast majority of US cities, but it is easily achievable in the specific three metropolitan areas, and maybe a small handful of others (definitely not entry level though). Competent engineers in these three areas should easily be looking at total compensation in the 250-400k range within 5-10yrs. Of course, this still represents a small but significant minority of all software engineers in the US, only possible at tier one tech companies and certain financial institutions. Outside of software, you can reach same levels at the most expensive metro areas in finance, pharma, and certain other science and engineering fields by early to mid career. Of course, in medicine and law, 150k is trivial in any economically competitive urban area in the US, but those fields come with delayed earning as well as extremely high investments in education.

For comparison, entry level salaries for software engineering in China might start at only 300k RMB, but 1-2million RMB is achievable for the best engineers at top Chinese tech companies in Beijing, Shenzhen, and Shanghai. The main difference is the competition is a lot tougher in those cities compared to NYC/Bay Area/Seattle.

For comparison, entry level software engineers in Shenzhen might only start at 300k RMB,

It's a largely meaningless figure. When so many people make six-figure salaries in a city, property prices also become obscenely high. Try to find a house anywhere near Silicon Valley, and suddenly your 150k salary seems like a pittance.

Of course, now that working remotely has become widely accepted, things are going to change.

 

[solarz]

Pay is a lot lower in Canada compared to US.

And well paying jobs are usually not the type that are outsourced to India.

These 100k+ salaries are a very small subset of available jobs. Competition for Google/FB/Amazon jobs are extremely fierce. The vast majority of jobs do not pay anywhere near that kind of salary.

 

[FriedRiceNSpice]

These 100k+ salaries are a very small subset of available jobs. Competition for Google/FB/Amazon jobs are extremely fierce. The vast majority of jobs do not pay anywhere near that kind of salary.

People move to cities like NYC and Bay Area because they dream they can make it big, of course vast majority don't. Those definitely aren't places for people hoping to make 150k and buy a house.

So on one hand, if you do live in these areas, you will need much more than 150k to afford your house. On other hand, in areas where 150k is definitely enough to afford a house, its actually not easy to make 150k. So it's kind of a catch 22 situation.

The competition is still much more competitive in China, but it's not exactly easy for the current generation in the US to easily become homeowners when compared to the previous generation. Though Chinese in America do have a competitive advantage, it is just not a realistic goal for most Chinese to just move to America to make 150k and invest in a house.

 

[Petrolicious88]

These 100k+ salaries are a very small subset of available jobs. Competition for Google/FB/Amazon jobs are extremely fierce. The vast majority of jobs do not pay anywhere near that kind of salary.

Google, Amazon, FB pay a lot more than $100k. Hiring bonuses often involve stock options too (very common these days). $100k at FANG is considered low.

Even finance folks working for mid tier banks such as Bank of America or J.P Morgan, often get paid around low six figures doing data analytics or project management. Pretty easy for a married couple to make $200k annual.

Go to Wilmington, Delaware; a third tier city, your starting salary for Data Analytics at J.P. Morgan is around $85-100k.

It’s not that hard for Asian immigrants with college level education.

 

[B.I.B.]

It's a largely meaningless figure. When so many people make six-figure salaries in a city, property prices also become obscenely high. Try to find a house anywhere near Silicon Valley, and suddenly your 150k salary seems like a pittance.

Of course, now that working remotely has become widely accepted, things are going to change.

My brother worked as a software writer contractor for a Canadian owned NZ firm while living in Japan. He went over there to be closer to his girlfriend who had a doctorate scholarship. Initially, he thought he might be able to find work with a Western owned company that had a branch in Japan but could not find anything that appealed.

 

[gadgetcool5]

If you go to the reddit sub r/financialindependence, a common joke is that the typical person who is able to retire in their 20's or 30's is a SWE (software engineer) working at a FAANG company. For example, like this person:

https://www.reddit.com/r/financialindependence/comments/n14qng