Chinese Economics Thread

[ToxSic]

When the news first came out that China was restricting rare-earth (around the Senkaku-Diaoyu dispute), some of the reaction or attitude more of a "China causing these hassles but we have alternatives". If there are indeed alternatives (ex. diversifying sources of these rare-earths; alternative sources in US, etc.), then there should not be a problem.

Personally, I would not want to see my home polluted so some other place gets energy efficient bulbs.

If it is that rare and important, pay more, or buy cheap but only limited amounts (i.e. get in line).

 

[bladerunner]

China set itself a goal to dominate the world production of rare earths under Deng in the 80's. So it can't complain that it was so successful.

 

[latenlazy]

When the news first came out that China was restricting rare-earth (around the Senkaku-Diaoyu dispute), some of the reaction or attitude more of a "China causing these hassles but we have alternatives". If there are indeed alternatives (ex. diversifying sources of these rare-earths; alternative sources in US, etc.), then there should not be a problem.

Personally, I would not want to see my home polluted so some other place gets energy efficient bulbs.

If it is that rare and important, pay more, or buy cheap but only limited amounts (i.e. get in line).

That's because it's not that China has the most rare earths deposits, but rather that it has the most already processed. Setting up the infrastructure for extracting rare earths take time, which is why they complain. That's time and money that wouldn't need to be spent if rare earths trading weren't restricted.

 

[AssassinsMace]

I remember when the US wanted to also prevent China from obtaining rare earth resources same as trying to prevent China from getting the latest technology. So who's fault is it when they didn't have to close their rare earth facilities? This is just like Donald Trump being a hypocite making excuses about being caught buying the less expensive made in China materials to construct his buildings while railing against trade with China. China didn't put a gun to his head and force him to buy Chinese. He chose to over the American made material. If he's so willing and proud to buy American, he can do it now with Chinese competition in play and it would cost him the same amount he says he's willing to pay if there were no Chinese competition. But he doesn't.

 

[Equation]

As far as rare earth materials and supplies concern, that's why we must explore the moon or the asteroid belts for them and process it in space to keep pollution away.

 

[bladerunner]

China was deliberately selling it cheaper than the West could produce it for as part of their overall strategy in controlling the market.

@ Equation quote

As far as rare earth materials and supplies concern, that's why we must explore the moon or the asteroid belts for them and process it in space to keep pollution away.

I think that could be a few life times away

 

[latenlazy]

I remember when the US wanted to also prevent China from obtaining rare earth resources same as trying to prevent China from getting the latest technology. So who's fault is it when they didn't have to close their rare earth facilities? This is just like Donald Trump being a hypocite making excuses about being caught buying the less expensive made in China materials to construct his buildings while railing against trade with China. China didn't put a gun to his head and force him to buy Chinese. He chose to over the American made material. If he's so willing and proud to buy American, he can do it now with Chinese competition in play and it would cost him the same amount he says he's willing to pay if there were no Chinese competition. But he doesn't.

Is it the US trying to prevent China from getting the latest technology, or just US technology? I'm not saying the US didn't benefit from IP theft, but the US complaining about IP theft and the US actively preventing China from getting technology as an ends is a bit different.

 

[RedMercury]

I think the Phalcon incident and support for continuation of EU arms embargo shows US is actively trying to prevent China from getting technology.

 

[latenlazy]

I think the Phalcon incident and support for continuation of EU arms embargo shows US is actively trying to prevent China from getting technology.

The EU arms embargo was a reaction to Tiananmen...and both it and the Phalcon incident definitely had overtones of sensitive military technology involved. It's not like China would allow for the dissemination of its military technology either after all. This is simply regular nation-state behavior. Preventing military technology and technology as a whole from being acquired are two very different things.

 

[Engineer]

For China to be able to delibrately sell its rare earth materials cheaper, there would need to be a single or several large state-owned mining entites controlling all the supplies. Such situation simply didn't exist back in the days when rare earth materials were cheap. The reality is that the entry point is low since any average joe can dig, which results in a lot of private mines, creating a perfect competitive market and an upper cap on price. Worse, the market was over saturated with suppliers, and they ended up trying to beat each other on price to stay in business. The existance of illegal mines did not help either. The end result is that the suppliers completely forgo safety and any environmental and social responsibilities. The whole "China was delibrately selling it (rare earth materials) cheaper" is nothing more than Western propaganda trying to paint China as the bad guy for not giving away rare earth materials essentially for free.