Chinese Economics Thread

[BrightFuture]

I never said that the US isn't doing wrong. But this isn't a one sided affair. You say China has been relatively restrained.

Is building islands and military installations on the South China Sea restrained?

Is flying more sorties over Taiwan than any time in the last 30 years restrained?

Is the ongoing border fighting with India that is the worse in 30 years, and refusal to demarcate the LAC restrained?

Is setting up an ADIZ over the East China Sea restrained?

Is making up a new border claim against Bhutan which never existed before restrained?

Is abruptly passing a HK national security law which takes away the city's freedoms restrained?

Is threatening Australia with economic punishment if it doesn't do what China wants restrained?

Is locking up 1 million Uighurs, doing genocide by forced sterilization, and making them do slave labor with no contact with their families restrained?

Are all the arrests of lawyers, increased censorship of WeChat and Weibo, arrests of academics for speaking politically incorrect, and never ending purges restrained?

Is wolf warrior diplomacy of gloating over others' coronavirus sufferings or berating them for their response restrained?

You are going to tell me that none of this is happening, or it's all justified for some reason or another. But Western propaganda is not that good. If China was being restrained then it would not be in the bad position it is in, not only via the US but via most developed countries & most of its neighbors.



And what did this liberal 1980s generations achieve? Did they ever express their liberalism? How was it reflected in Chinese policies? The American people don't know which generations are liberal or conservative in China. All they can see is government policy. Since 2008, China has only become more hardline, nationalist, authoritarian and closed. It completely reversed direction from the 1980s and 1990s when it was opening up & reform.

The US never hid its expectations, fair or not. The US always openly said it expected China to gradually liberalize. You can go back to the speeches of Bill Clinton or Robert Zoellick from the 1990's and 2000's. When China liberalized and joined the international system, it became the most successful country in the world. It rose from a nation of peasant farmers to almost a middle income country in one generation. What I don't understand is why did it suddenly do a 180 degree reverse backward and is now trying to return to the days of Mao Zedong? If you are being successful, why turn around and go back to the old road where you were unsuccessful? There is no reason- it is complete stupidity out of the blue. It is as if a man who has just gotten a promotion, ideal career, ideal wife, ideal kids, one day suddenly decides to pick up a gun, point it at his own face, and pull the trigger. That is really what upsets me so. China sacrificed so many decades and so many lives for the lessons of the Deng Xiaoping era, when it finally seemed to be on the right path. But for no reason at all it is suddenly going to the wrong path again with no explanation. I don't get it. It's like Xi Jinping is some sort of CIA intelligence op out to damage China, and he somehow got elected General Secretary.

I won't reply to all your post because I don't have the time nor the patience. But, what part of China is just not being aggressive, just merely responding to aggression you don't get? If your neighbour started to say he wants to kill you, and then bought a tank and pointed it at your house, you won't do anything? Just stand still and wait for things to improve with someone that can't be reasoned with? Even you can't be that stupid

 

[Gatekeeper]

I never said that the US isn't doing wrong. But this isn't a one sided affair. You say China has been relatively restrained

Yes

Is building islands and military installations on the South China Sea restrained?

Yes

Is flying more sorties over Taiwan than any time in the last 30 years restrained?

Yes

Is the ongoing border fighting with India that is the worse in 30 years, and refusal to demarcate the LAC restrained?

Yes

Is setting up an ADIZ over the East China Sea restrained?

Yes

Is making up a new border claim against Bhutan which never existed before restrained?

Yes

Is abruptly passing a HK national security law which takes away the city's freedoms restrained

Yes

Is threatening Australia with economic punishment if it doesn't do what China wants restrained?

Yes

Is locking up 1 million Uighurs, doing genocide by forced sterilization, and making them do slave labor with no contact with their families restrained?

Yes

Are all the arrests of lawyers, increased censorship of WeChat and Weibo, arrests of academics for speaking politically

Yes

Is wolf warrior diplomacy of gloating over others' coronavirus sufferings or berating them for their response restrained?

Yes

 

[SPOOPYSKELETON]

Lets remember what Carl Schmitt said about politics.

"The specific political distinction to which political actions and motives can be reduced is that between friend and enemy."

Does that not strike you as true on an instinctual level?

Of course it resonates.

So lets ask ourselves what exactly is irritating about gadgetcool's post?

It is because, on every single issue, he takes the side of America. By saying that China is not justified in pursuing these actions, that these are not conflicts worth fighting, he is implicitly supporting the other side.

That is, he is advocating for the enemy. Yet he pretends he is your friend, and that listening to him will bring good things.

Is it not obvious that such an approach can only lead to outrage from those who have a clear eye of the stakes of these conflicts?

Especially when he defends a regime as murderous as the USA, one that just today openly declared its intention to starve innocent Iranians into submission? Just because Trump, on a whim, destroyed a key piece of diplomacy for his own base?

How can we take someone who professes such a great admiration for human rights and dignity, and at the same time legitimizes a regime that is killing thousands of innocent Muslims day by day? That revels in such death, that celebrates it as "the unleashing of American power?"

How is the defense of such an immoral regime in the interest of China?

 

[daifo]

Sorry, but most of gadgetcools arguments are along the line of "she 'should accept harassment or worst' because she was out walking alone minding her own business wearing yoga pants. Stay in the kitchen, where you belong, not out pursuing a career or hobby"

 

[weig2000]

My first reaction is whether this is a farce or fake news. The desperation sounds so... desperate - I'm out of words.

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WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Marco Rubio, a top Republican senator who has successfully urged the Trump administration to pursue probes into Chinese companies, called on Friday for the U.S. government to consider options to delay an initial public offering for China's Ant Financial, the fintech arm of Chinese e-commerce giant Alibaba

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.

“It’s outrageous that Wall Street is rewarding the Chinese Communist Party’s blatant crackdown on Hong Kong’s freedom and autonomy by orchestrating Ant Group’s IPO on the Hong Kong and Shanghai stock exchanges,” Rubio said in a statement to Reuters. “The Administration should take a serious look at the options available to delay Ant Group’s IPO,” he added.

 

[BrightFuture]

Lets remember what Carl Schmitt said about politics.

"The specific political distinction to which political actions and motives can be reduced is that between friend and enemy."

Does that not strike you as true on an instinctual level?

Of course it resonates.

So lets ask ourselves what exactly is irritating about gadgetcool's post?

It is because, on every single issue, he takes the side of America. By saying that China is not justified in pursuing these actions, that these are not conflicts worth fighting, he is implicitly supporting the other side.

That is, he is advocating for the enemy. Yet he pretends he is your friend, and that listening to him will bring good things.

Is it not obvious that such an approach can only lead to outrage from those who have a clear eye of the stakes of these conflicts?

The thing that irritates me about him is the same thing that irritates me about Western countries and their media: they blatantly lie about China, they ignore all context of China's actions, they aren't factual, they are hypocritical, and they set a different bar when it comes to measuring anything about China vs anything about Western aligned countries. Plus they are uninformed about China (yet the pretend to have a objective opinion), can't speak Chinese, have never been in China, and clearly have never interacted with Chinese people.

China is not a perfect country – no country is – there is legitimate criticism that could be done about China, but: CPC bad, China is the aggressor, and the Uighur fairytale, is not part of it; it isn't factual and/or ignores all geopolitical context.

With its discourses against the CPC and China the US is creating more Communists and nacionalists in China. Why is that? Simple, because unlike Westerners, Chinese know about the two sides of the story; they clearly know that the US is lying and inventing fairytales. The US discourse doesn't rally support in China because those non-issues don't exist in China and people can't connect with them.

Finally, I'm far from being a Xi or CPC lover, but every time this idiot says Xi hasn't done anything for the country, I can't help but laugh. Has he ever talked with any Chinese ever? China might not be perfect, Xi isn't either, but he has done a lot. Talk with any Chinese and they will tell you about how much corruption has been reduced since Xi became president. Maybe that's why they hate it so much, because he is actually beneficial to China.

 

[weig2000]

"Washington hard-liners appear to be running out of real threats to chase, so now they’re barking at the moon. "

This Bloomberg columnist is trying to calm down the Washington's hard-liners, but still got very frustrated.

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Washington’s hard-liners are starting to look desperate as they uncover China threats that don’t really exist.
By

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October 7, 2020, 11:22 PM EDT

So now payments platforms from China’s Ant Group and Tencent Holdings Ltd. pose a threat to U.S. national security, joining the growing list that already includes Semiconductor Manufacturing International Corp. and Huawei Technologies Co.

U.S. officials are apparently concerned that they’ll come to dominate global digital payments,

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, citing officials it didn’t name. This threat is so serious, in their eyes, that it was even discussed at a meeting in the White House Situation Room, according to the report.

Let’s be clear: Beijing’s global economic, military and technological expansion is a real threat to the United States. But fears that Ant’s Alipay and Tencent’s WeChat Pay will take over the world are a bit ridiculous. After a decade in the business, neither company has shown much interest in overseas expansion. Collating reams of data on American shoppers is of minimal risk.

I still recall the day a WeChat executive admitted openly that her international plans extended only so far as following Chinese travelers around the world. Wherever they shop, WeChat Pay will be ready to accept the transaction — from Harrods in London to Macy’s Inc. stores in New York. Onboarding U.S. consumers is not their intention.

Concerns that the move could hurt Ant’s upcoming initial public offerings in Shanghai and Hong Kong are wildly exaggerated. More than 90% of its revenue comes from China, and wealth management is where the real money is, anyway. The company has shown little interest in international expansion.

What international plans Ant does have primarily center on investing in local companies in emerging markets such as Southeast Asia, or facilitating Chinese consumers and business operations overseas. Investors will be falling over themselves to get a piece of the IPO action, barring the unlikely event of a broader economic or financial meltdown amid the Covid-19 pandemic.

Should the U.S. sever Chinese companies from working with Western firms like Visa Inc. and Mastercard Inc., then the pain would be real. Escalating further, for example by adding them to the

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, cutting them off from the U.S. banking and payments infrastructure, or banning American companies from even owning shares, could be far more damaging.

But it won’t likely get to that. U.S. officials have

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that an earlier ban on the WeChat messaging app was primarily aimed at operations in America, not shutting it down in China (for example, by banning Apple Inc. and Alphabet Inc. from offering it in their app stores). And a U.S. judge has already

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that we’d see more moves in the U.S. — notably from the State and Commerce departments — to restrict Chinese companies in the run-up to next month’s election: naked opportunism in the face of a possible change in administration. Discussions to curb payments services from Ant and Tencent follow that pattern.

Washington hard-liners appear to be running out of real threats to chase, so now they’re barking at the moon. The risk is that if they keep yapping at nothing, the world may soon stop listening.

 

[hullopilllw]

I'm sorry. I seem too negative at times. I simply strongly think China should put more effort into seeking better relations with the West and understanding perceptions of it abroad. I don't understand why it has to pick one fight after another all the time. Yes, China is a big country but it's just one country. 84% of the world population is outside China and that share will only grow as China's birthrate plummets. Having good relations with other countries in this globalized world is important, and as Xi Jinping said, the trend of globalization can't be reversed. Politics is at the root of all this. It's a too way street. Just as the world should better understand China, China should better understand the world.

So you mean every time when US demands or hold something ransom from China, in order to maintain relation China has to cut off a piece of herself and give it to the US ?

 

[horse]

"Washington hard-liners appear to be running out of real threats to chase, so now they’re barking at the moon. "

This Bloomberg columnist is trying to calm down the Washington's hard-liners, but still got very frustrated.

I don't get it.

If the Americans strike at this deal and sanction Chinese interests, China will strike back financially.

This could lead to financial war.

This could lead to a dollar crisis. We already know who is broke and printing money.

So the Americans want to initiate a potential dollar crisis?

Financial markets could go bonkers. What about "exorbitant privilege", will that survive?

Sounds like a plan to me!

 

[hullopilllw]

"Washington hard-liners appear to be running out of real threats to chase, so now they’re barking at the moon. "

This Bloomberg columnist is trying to calm down the Washington's hard-liners, but still got very frustrated.

That is why we say it is a nation in decline. Instead of investing more in innovation, upping your gaming in competition, the US focus is now more about taking steps to hamper the progress of your competitors.

Whatever form of domination of the global fintech marketshould be depending on the market dynamic, innovation of the players, and whoever can meet the demands/identify the trend of the global market. Note the usage of the word global, not US, meaning US politicians seems to regard it as only normal for the global market to belong to US firms only bar none. If the world do not accept our platform or system, there must be something, someone be must be cheating because we are the BEST.