Chinese Economics Thread

[gelgoog]

Silicon Valley hasn't even felt the coming earthquake because the US closed-off money from China funding new startups in the US. It means all the established giants hold a monopoly. New innovation will be stifled because the only money from investment are from the giants that just destroy or gobble up new startups. Another sector in the US economy that will lose are new entrepreneurs. Again the establishment don't like competition. China provided new entrepreneurs manufacturing for their ideas without them having to build a factory themselves to produce their products at the lowest cost possible. That's all gone now. In the US they always romanticize how the mom and pop shops and new entrepreneurs are the back bone of the US economy. Say bye bye.

I love these lies where somehow the US won't feel a thing from their own technological Cold War with China. If China buys up 60% of the world's chips that are produced, that means they lost 60% of their profits. A private company is more vulnerable to those kinds of losses. If they're going to survive, the capitalists will be begging for money from the government meaning the taxpayers pay. Someone's losing money. There was an article recently where Silicon Valley companies are asking the US government for tens of billions of dollars in support because of the coming Tech Cold War with China. They don't need money because everyone's saying China is the only one that loses.

Mozilla now is betting on services. Maybe they'll compete with GMail eventually.

I have stopped using Google for search many years back. Ever since I went into the control panel they have for resetting your search history on their servers. It is shocking the amount of data they siphon. Every single thing you typed into the search bar since forever. I tried ProtonMail but it's slow like heck. If it wasn't I would probably have switched. Switching to another of the main US vendors would be little help as they don't keep your data private on purpose.

China needs to build datacenters worldwide and start promoting their services more.

I have said it more than once. If China invaded Taiwan and South Korea simultaneously they could capture or destroy the majority of global chip production in a flash. It wouldn't help China, but it would basically nuke the global chip market for at least a decade I think. There would be other vendors but the factories would be crap and they wouldn't have enough volume.

 

[emblem21]

Silicon Valley hasn't even felt the coming earthquake because the US closed-off money from China funding new startups in the US. It means all the established giants hold a monopoly. New innovation will be stifled because the only money from investment are from the giants that just destroy or gobble up new startups. Another sector in the US economy that will lose are new entrepreneurs. Again the establishment don't like competition. China provided new entrepreneurs manufacturing for their ideas without them having to build a factory themselves to produce their products at the lowest cost possible. That's all gone now. In the US they always romanticize how the mom and pop shops and new entrepreneurs are the back bone of the US economy. Say bye bye.

I love these lies where somehow the US won't feel a thing from their own technological Cold War with China. If China buys up 60% of the world's chips that are produced, that means they lost 60% of their profits. A private company is more vulnerable to those kinds of losses. If they're going to survive, the capitalists will be begging for money from the government meaning the taxpayers pay. Someone's losing money. There was an article recently where Silicon Valley companies are asking the US government for tens of billions of dollars in support because of the coming Tech Cold War with China. They don't need money because everyone's saying China is the only one that loses.

This is just like with all those flight companies that are demanding billions or else they will fire there employees in there thousands and with trump cutting of stimulus until after the election, I wonder if these people who are now going to be on the street with out food or money are going to give a shit about China or whether they are going to survive in the future and if not, whether cracking the heads of these wealthy elite and taking there cash and food is going to help more in there survival.in other words, the immediate survival of the USA will be at stake if they have all these unemployed angry and hungry at the White House demanding aid. The USA is using China as a distraction, something that is going to be increasing useless prior to the election where the pandemic and unemployment and social issues are going to be far more important on people’s collective minds

 

[gelgoog]

This is just like with all those flight companies that are demanding billions or else they will fire there employees in there thousands and with trump cutting of stimulus until after the election, I wonder if these people who are now going to be on the street with out food or money are going to give a shit about China or whether they are going to survive in the future and if not, whether cracking the heads of these wealthy elite and taking there cash and food is going to help more in there survival.in other words, the immediate survival of the USA will be at stake if they have all these unemployed angry and hungry at the White House demanding aid. The USA is using China as a distraction, something that is going to be increasing useless prior to the election where the pandemic and unemployment and social issues are going to be far more important on people’s collective minds

I once read this book by Greg Nyquist. The guy basically described the issues with the "cult" a lot of US liberals follow. Including former US Federal Reserve Bank Chairman Alan Greenspan, the guy behind the 1990s real estate bubble and the 2000 tech bubble. He basically describes how the US is headed to become a 3rd rate nation like Brazil where the rich live in gated communities right next to slums. Where you basically have to drive an armored car to be safe from being robbed until the eventual revolution comes. It is really shocking and eye opening. I know the book isn't popular but I liked perusing it.

 

[emblem21]

I

Mozilla now is betting on services. Maybe they'll compete with GMail eventually.

I have stopped using Google for search many years back. Ever since I went into the control panel they have for resetting your search history on their servers. It is shocking the amount of data they siphon. Every single thing you typed into the search bar since forever. I tried ProtonMail but it's slow like heck. If it wasn't I would probably have switched. Switching to another of the main US vendors would be little help as they don't keep your data private on purpose.

China needs to build datacenters worldwide and start promoting their services more.

I have said it more than once. If China invaded Taiwan and South Korea simultaneously they could capture or destroy the majority of global chip production in a flash. It wouldn't help China, but it would basically nuke the global chip market for at least a decade I think. There would be other vendors but the factories would be crap and they wouldn't have enough volume.

I suspect that may be the option to useif the USA truly wants a war and make SK and JP take part. But really in regards to chips, all China really needs to do is completely halt rare earths from being used by any western nation or allies of that will cripple both SK and Taiwan for years since both nation need the rare earths to be processed in China to be used at all and the USA needs rare earths for all there weapons and there aircraft right now since I did hear that there f-35 are running out of spare parts . And if anyone says that other nations can mine them, then I say that China is really the only nation that came process the rare earths in the quality and quantity they do and none of the other western nations with the economies in deep shit and with any interest in damaging there own environment can make these industries in the next 5-10 years to be able to replace China. By then, China would have been able to make themselves independent and completely self sufficient with a true monopoly In these industries so that the USA cannot try to screw them over this time. Really that is why the USA still tries to let there own industry be able to provide there own chips to China until now (while trying to cut TSMC and Samsung out) is because they know if they are cut off from rare earths in the middle off a chaotic election and with there economy about to fall off a cliff, they are well and truly screwed. The USA has far to many issues at hand since if there stock market tumbles too much, a lot of people are going to panic and things will go fubar from then on. There are also way too many companies that are suing the USA government because they know they are the ones escalating the issues at hand and they are losing money thanks to them. Hence who would really be in the interested in the event that China stops send rare earths that to build a modern rare earths processing plant on par with China within 5-10 years, without Chinese experience which is up to date when the USA made it clear that they hate China like crazy. Not even India could dare to try when there infrastructure and experience is sub par at best and come on, SK and Jap doesn’t have what it takes because they don’t have the land or expertise to do so and the USA has too much red tape to even try, plus they are bankrupt. Look at there attempts to bring Foxconn to Arizona, complete dead in water, not to mention with everyone losing there jobs, is anyone really thinking about starting a whole new industry that will have no tangible benefits until after 5-10 years have past, from which China would have already surpassed them in ever way and form while the they are still trying to fix there own problems even then. None of these western nations have it in themselves any more to do the hard work, they want easy solutions, thats why in general, China innovates more then the USA. If the USA cannot bring themselves to fix there own infrastructure, then they have no hope to change there sinking future, the leadership of the USA is the greatest proof of this. Oh dear I might have ranted on a little

 

[horse]

Silicon Valley hasn't even felt the coming earthquake because the US closed-off money from China funding new startups in the US. It means all the established giants hold a monopoly. New innovation will be stifled because the only money from investment are from the giants that just destroy or gobble up new startups. Another sector in the US economy that will lose are new entrepreneurs. Again the establishment don't like competition. China provided new entrepreneurs manufacturing for their ideas without them having to build a factory themselves to produce their products at the lowest cost possible. That's all gone now. In the US they always romanticize how the mom and pop shops and new entrepreneurs are the back bone of the US economy. Say bye bye.

I love these lies where somehow the US won't feel a thing from their own technological Cold War with China. If China buys up 60% of the world's chips that are produced, that means they lost 60% of their profits. A private company is more vulnerable to those kinds of losses. If they're going to survive, the capitalists will be begging for money from the government meaning the taxpayers pay. Someone's losing money. There was an article recently where Silicon Valley companies are asking the US government for tens of billions of dollars in support because of the coming Tech Cold War with China. They don't need money because everyone's saying China is the only one that loses.

Yeah, exactly!

People don't understand this stuff.

And you get tired talking about it, more like telling them about how this is the way the world works!

They just like the simple fight, like video game.

 

[horse]

Furthermore, a basic point, is that when the economy is growing at 5%, then on average, all the companies inside that economy is also growing at 5%.

That is simple math. Y = G + I + C (exports-imports).

Yet, how many times have we ever read in the financial press, beginner level or intermediate level, this simple math, which tells us why companies want to be in the Chinese market.

Which countries offer you growth for your own company at 5%? Guess they like -3%, much more preferable.

It is all about cheap labour, always.

I could never tell, was it them in the Liberal media being condescending, or they were being stupid because they had no idea of the topic/material.

At this stage of the game, it is clear, stupid Liberal media. Forever!

 

[AndrewS]

That is true that the USA still has one of the strongest navies in the world currently, but should the USA dollar go under and if the country really does go down into a civil unrest period following the election

Such a combination is unlikely to happen

 

[emblem21]

Such a combination is unlikely to happen

Unlikely, but possible given the current chaos and either way, the situation in the USA isn’t going to recover anytime soon based on how badly they bungled there pandemic response which lead into so many different situations that simply didn’t do them wonders

 

[j17wang]

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It is natural for India to manufacture $143 billion in phones over 5 years, that only works out to $25-30BN of additional smartphones a year, or sales of roughly 100 million units per year, which isn't even close enough to cover their domestic market, let alone export.

China doesnt get that much value from phone assembly anyways, besides $25BN a year is the same as exporting 500,000 EVs at $50K a pop. If China can't export 500,000K in EV's a year by 2025, in all honesty, as a chinese myself -> we don't deserve to be called the world's factory.

 

[Orthan]

Should China respond robustly, seek to make concessions or just wait to see if its an empty threat?

Its quite possible that europe could place aditional tariffs on chinese products, and that the EU is a large market for chinese exports. However it is also true that europe needs the chinese market more than the US does. They arent in as a good position as the US is. IMO, they may place aditional tariffs on chinese products, but they will be more limited than the ones the US implemented.

Regardless, i dont think that china will make real concessions. Their entire economic model depends on it. If the US couldnt do it, what makes anyone think that with the EU, things will be different ?

Of course china will be hurt by this, but this is the burden of being "the factory of the world" and depending a lot from exports.