Chinese Economics Thread
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bladerunner
Banned Idiot
I prefer the CCTV building because its different
Martian
Senior Member
What is the real size of China's economy?
Let's assume that China's National Bureau of Statistics is incapable of collecting economic data. Instead, let's focus on the standard measure of electricity consumption. Compare the amount of electricity used by the United States and China.
What does it tell you about the size of the real Chinese economy? Does anybody truly believe that China's real economy is only one-third the size of the U.S. economy (as reflected in nominal GDP measurements)?
Rank.....Country.............Value (kW-hours)............Date of Info
1..........United States....3,741,485,000,000.......2009 (actual, see below)
2..........China................3,643,000,000,000.......2009 (actual, see below)
3..........European Union..2,884,000,000,000..........2007 est.
4..........Russia................1,023,000,000,000..........2007 est.
5..........Japan.................1,007,000,000,000..........2007 est.
6..........India.....................568,000,000,000...........2007 est.
7..........Germany...............547,300,000,000...........2007 est.
8..........Canada..................536,100,000,000...........2007 est.
9..........France...................447,200,000,000...........2007 est.
10........Brazil.....................404,300,000,000...........2007 est.
References:
United States:
China:
Let's assume that China's National Bureau of Statistics is incapable of collecting economic data. Instead, let's focus on the standard measure of electricity consumption. Compare the amount of electricity used by the United States and China.
What does it tell you about the size of the real Chinese economy? Does anybody truly believe that China's real economy is only one-third the size of the U.S. economy (as reflected in nominal GDP measurements)?
Rank.....Country.............Value (kW-hours)............Date of Info
1..........United States....3,741,485,000,000.......2009 (actual, see below)
2..........China................3,643,000,000,000.......2009 (actual, see below)
3..........European Union..2,884,000,000,000..........2007 est.
4..........Russia................1,023,000,000,000..........2007 est.
5..........Japan.................1,007,000,000,000..........2007 est.
6..........India.....................568,000,000,000...........2007 est.
7..........Germany...............547,300,000,000...........2007 est.
8..........Canada..................536,100,000,000...........2007 est.
9..........France...................447,200,000,000...........2007 est.
10........Brazil.....................404,300,000,000...........2007 est.
References:
United States:
China:
Schumacher
Senior Member
Thought of putting this piece of news in the China technology thread but the economics and geopolitical significance of this development is probably much more than just technologies.
"China to Build High-speed Rail Connecting Thailand and Laos
2010-12-08 11:13:15 CRIENGLISH.com Web Editor: Zhangxu
China has signed agreements with Thailand and Laos to build high-speed railways connecting the two Southeast Asian countries.
The Beijing Times reports that officials from Thailand and Laos made the disclosure on Tuesday in Beijing.
During the seventh World Congress on High Speed Rail, Thailand's deputy prime minister, Suthep Thaugsuban, said China is cooperating on high-speed railways with the countries of the Association of South East Asian Nations (Asean), including Thailand, Laos, Myanmar, Singapore, and Malaysia. Suthep says that Thailand's parliament has approved the project and the two countries have signed the framework agreement.
Somsavat Lengsavad, Laos deputy prime minister, told the Congress that based on the agreement with China the high-speed railway linking the Lao capital Vientiane with Beijing will begin construction in 2011 and be completed in 2015.
Both Suthep and Somsavat hoped the high-speed railways will be built as soon as possible to boost the two nations' economic ties with China....................................................................."
"China to Build High-speed Rail Connecting Thailand and Laos
2010-12-08 11:13:15 CRIENGLISH.com Web Editor: Zhangxu
China has signed agreements with Thailand and Laos to build high-speed railways connecting the two Southeast Asian countries.
The Beijing Times reports that officials from Thailand and Laos made the disclosure on Tuesday in Beijing.
During the seventh World Congress on High Speed Rail, Thailand's deputy prime minister, Suthep Thaugsuban, said China is cooperating on high-speed railways with the countries of the Association of South East Asian Nations (Asean), including Thailand, Laos, Myanmar, Singapore, and Malaysia. Suthep says that Thailand's parliament has approved the project and the two countries have signed the framework agreement.
Somsavat Lengsavad, Laos deputy prime minister, told the Congress that based on the agreement with China the high-speed railway linking the Lao capital Vientiane with Beijing will begin construction in 2011 and be completed in 2015.
Both Suthep and Somsavat hoped the high-speed railways will be built as soon as possible to boost the two nations' economic ties with China....................................................................."
maozedong
Banned Idiot
GE Partners With China on High Speed Rail
Erie, Penn., USA and Beijing, China (Dec. 6, 2010) - GE today announced a cooperative framework
agreement with CSR Corporation Limited (CSR) to establish a U.S.-based joint venture to advance
high-speed and other rail technology in the U.S. The partnership represents an investment of
approximately $50 million in the joint venture with the potential to sustain or create 250 U.S. jobs by
2012 for the first phase of the agreement.
This collaboration establishes the GE Transportation - CSR joint venture as the first U.S. manufacturer
ready to supply high-speed rail (HSR) passenger trains for the two proposed true U.S. HSR corridors in
Florida and California. The agreement also advances passenger rail transport through the
manufacturing of medium-speed passenger trains and transit rail vehicles for urban areas in the U.S.
“We are committed to advancing the global high-speed rail technology market and this agreement
provides a significant opportunity for infrastructure and business growth,” said GE Vice Chairman
John Rice. “It is in line with GE's company-to-country initiatives and will help support investment and
high-tech job growth in America.”
The agreement is another critical step to support and advance passenger rail development in the
U.S., following the memorandum of understanding (MOU) GE signed with China’s Ministry of Railways
(MOR) in November 2009.
GE and CSR are committed to maximizing U.S. content in high-speed passenger trains to meet Buy
America standards. In addition, all final production will be in the U.S., sustaining approximately 3,500
long-term high-tech manufacturing U.S. jobs in support of the joint venture. GE is the world leader in
diesel-electric locomotive technology and this agreement is a step towards expanding offerings to
manufacture high-speed passenger trains or EMUs (Electric Multiple Units).
Zhao Xiaogang, Chairman of CSR said, "CSR and GE will create a leading passenger transportation
business in the U.S. by combining CSR's extensive experience in developing and operating highspeed,
medium-speed EMUs and urban rail transit vehicles with GE's manufacturing and supply
chain management expertise in America, as well as in-depth knowledge of the U.S. rail market.
“CSR is one of the world’s largest transportation equipment companies,” Xiaogang said. “It has the
strong experience and advanced skills in the design, manufacture, testing, repair and maintenance
of high-speed and medium-speed EMUs and urban rail transit vehicles.”
Press Release
China is a leader in high-speed rail technology for speeds of 220 miles per hour and higher. By 2020,
China plans to expand its railway network to span 120,000 kilometers, including 16,000 kilometers of
dedicated high-speed rail track.
GE is working with CSR to provide China with the world’s most technologically advanced, fuelefficient
and low-emissions diesel-electric, heavy-haul locomotive. Three-hundred of these
locomotives have already been placed into operation by the MOR. Current and past projects in
cooperation with China’s MOR have sustained or created approximately 100 high-tech
manufacturing jobs for GE and hundreds more for GE suppliers across America.
GE Transportation and the MOR also signed a separate MOU to broaden their joint rail technology
cooperation to serve China and North America and develop joint business opportunities for the U.S.
rail market. This includes plans to develop additional diesel locomotive technology and deploy fuel
saving rail software solutions like Trip Optimizer to the Chinese market. The MOR will also promote
GE’s ITCS signaling technology in the Western part of China.
Media Release provided by GE
Erie, Penn., USA and Beijing, China (Dec. 6, 2010) - GE today announced a cooperative framework
agreement with CSR Corporation Limited (CSR) to establish a U.S.-based joint venture to advance
high-speed and other rail technology in the U.S. The partnership represents an investment of
approximately $50 million in the joint venture with the potential to sustain or create 250 U.S. jobs by
2012 for the first phase of the agreement.
This collaboration establishes the GE Transportation - CSR joint venture as the first U.S. manufacturer
ready to supply high-speed rail (HSR) passenger trains for the two proposed true U.S. HSR corridors in
Florida and California. The agreement also advances passenger rail transport through the
manufacturing of medium-speed passenger trains and transit rail vehicles for urban areas in the U.S.
“We are committed to advancing the global high-speed rail technology market and this agreement
provides a significant opportunity for infrastructure and business growth,” said GE Vice Chairman
John Rice. “It is in line with GE's company-to-country initiatives and will help support investment and
high-tech job growth in America.”
The agreement is another critical step to support and advance passenger rail development in the
U.S., following the memorandum of understanding (MOU) GE signed with China’s Ministry of Railways
(MOR) in November 2009.
GE and CSR are committed to maximizing U.S. content in high-speed passenger trains to meet Buy
America standards. In addition, all final production will be in the U.S., sustaining approximately 3,500
long-term high-tech manufacturing U.S. jobs in support of the joint venture. GE is the world leader in
diesel-electric locomotive technology and this agreement is a step towards expanding offerings to
manufacture high-speed passenger trains or EMUs (Electric Multiple Units).
Zhao Xiaogang, Chairman of CSR said, "CSR and GE will create a leading passenger transportation
business in the U.S. by combining CSR's extensive experience in developing and operating highspeed,
medium-speed EMUs and urban rail transit vehicles with GE's manufacturing and supply
chain management expertise in America, as well as in-depth knowledge of the U.S. rail market.
“CSR is one of the world’s largest transportation equipment companies,” Xiaogang said. “It has the
strong experience and advanced skills in the design, manufacture, testing, repair and maintenance
of high-speed and medium-speed EMUs and urban rail transit vehicles.”
Press Release
China is a leader in high-speed rail technology for speeds of 220 miles per hour and higher. By 2020,
China plans to expand its railway network to span 120,000 kilometers, including 16,000 kilometers of
dedicated high-speed rail track.
GE is working with CSR to provide China with the world’s most technologically advanced, fuelefficient
and low-emissions diesel-electric, heavy-haul locomotive. Three-hundred of these
locomotives have already been placed into operation by the MOR. Current and past projects in
cooperation with China’s MOR have sustained or created approximately 100 high-tech
manufacturing jobs for GE and hundreds more for GE suppliers across America.
GE Transportation and the MOR also signed a separate MOU to broaden their joint rail technology
cooperation to serve China and North America and develop joint business opportunities for the U.S.
rail market. This includes plans to develop additional diesel locomotive technology and deploy fuel
saving rail software solutions like Trip Optimizer to the Chinese market. The MOR will also promote
GE’s ITCS signaling technology in the Western part of China.
Media Release provided by GE
Hendrik_2000
Lieutenant General
Allstate survey From Atlantic blog
We're No. 2
Dec 8 2010, 1:10 PM ET
In the global race for jobs and economic prosperity, the United States is No. 2. And it is likely to remain there for some time. That's the glum conclusion of most Americans surveyed in the latest Allstate/National Journal Heartland Monitor poll. Henry Luce famously labeled the 20th century the "American Century." This survey suggests that most Americans now doubt that this new century will bear that name.
In the poll, only one in five Americans said that the U.S. economy is the world's strongest--nearly half picked China instead. Looking forward, Americans are somewhat more optimistic about regaining primacy, but still only about one in three expect the U.S. economy to be the world's strongest in 20 years. Nearly three-fifths of those surveyed said that increasing competition from lower-paid workers around the world will keep living standards for average Americans from growing as fast as they did in the past. Ruben Owen, a retired Boeing engineer in Seattle who responded to the survey, spoke for many when he said, "We're still in a reasonably good place ... but it's going to get harder because other places are growing stronger."
Across a wide range of issues, the poll found the traditional American instinct toward optimism straining against fears that the nation's economic struggles may extend far beyond the current slowdown. On many fronts, particularly the quality of higher education and scientific research, large majorities of Americans still believe that we lead the world. And most say that the U.S. can remain a manufacturing leader.
But the survey reveals deep anxiety about the impact on the American economy of increased globalization; the decades-long shift in domestic employment from manufacturing toward services; the quality of decisions by government and business leaders; and the economic prospects for younger generations.
In follow-up conversations, several of those polled struggled to maintain hope that their children will live better than they have, against growing unease that it won't turn out that way. "I would like to say yes," said Dana Rigby, a homemaker in Kirksville, Mo., when asked if she expected her children's living standards to exceed her own. "I'm trying to get my kids on the right path; who doesn't want that? But I don't know if there's going to be enough out there for all the young kids to have good jobs."
Conducted after a tumultuous midterm election, the poll captured a populace that remains uneasy, ambivalent, and divided. The nation is split almost exactly in half over President Obama's job performance and over whether he or congressional Republicans should take the lead in confronting the country's problems. Just as tellingly, few of those polled expect their economic situation to improve much over the next year, and most say they are skeptical that either party's agenda can achieve the nation's major challenges. As America lurches into its third consecutive winter of discontent, confidence in the political system and optimism about the economy remain scarce.
We're No. 2
Dec 8 2010, 1:10 PM ET
In the global race for jobs and economic prosperity, the United States is No. 2. And it is likely to remain there for some time. That's the glum conclusion of most Americans surveyed in the latest Allstate/National Journal Heartland Monitor poll. Henry Luce famously labeled the 20th century the "American Century." This survey suggests that most Americans now doubt that this new century will bear that name.
In the poll, only one in five Americans said that the U.S. economy is the world's strongest--nearly half picked China instead. Looking forward, Americans are somewhat more optimistic about regaining primacy, but still only about one in three expect the U.S. economy to be the world's strongest in 20 years. Nearly three-fifths of those surveyed said that increasing competition from lower-paid workers around the world will keep living standards for average Americans from growing as fast as they did in the past. Ruben Owen, a retired Boeing engineer in Seattle who responded to the survey, spoke for many when he said, "We're still in a reasonably good place ... but it's going to get harder because other places are growing stronger."
Across a wide range of issues, the poll found the traditional American instinct toward optimism straining against fears that the nation's economic struggles may extend far beyond the current slowdown. On many fronts, particularly the quality of higher education and scientific research, large majorities of Americans still believe that we lead the world. And most say that the U.S. can remain a manufacturing leader.
But the survey reveals deep anxiety about the impact on the American economy of increased globalization; the decades-long shift in domestic employment from manufacturing toward services; the quality of decisions by government and business leaders; and the economic prospects for younger generations.
In follow-up conversations, several of those polled struggled to maintain hope that their children will live better than they have, against growing unease that it won't turn out that way. "I would like to say yes," said Dana Rigby, a homemaker in Kirksville, Mo., when asked if she expected her children's living standards to exceed her own. "I'm trying to get my kids on the right path; who doesn't want that? But I don't know if there's going to be enough out there for all the young kids to have good jobs."
Conducted after a tumultuous midterm election, the poll captured a populace that remains uneasy, ambivalent, and divided. The nation is split almost exactly in half over President Obama's job performance and over whether he or congressional Republicans should take the lead in confronting the country's problems. Just as tellingly, few of those polled expect their economic situation to improve much over the next year, and most say they are skeptical that either party's agenda can achieve the nation's major challenges. As America lurches into its third consecutive winter of discontent, confidence in the political system and optimism about the economy remain scarce.
bladerunner
Banned Idiot
Not just America, The blue collar worker, in most Western countries have felt the economic growth of China with a little bit of unease. The question is , Will it turn nasty in the not too distant future?
Last edited:
Martian
Senior Member
Google drops to third place in China. Time to go home?
This information is dated and from March 23, 2010. Following the Google fiasco in China (i.e. Google challenges China on political grounds), Baidu's stock market value has soared. I will post an updated valuation chart when it becomes available.
"Alibaba Passes Google in China Online Ads
December 9, 2010, 4:57 PM HKT
Research firms have already noted how Google’s slide in China’s online search market has been good for the company’s Chinese rival, Baidu. Now it appears Google may have given up ground to another Chinese internet giant: Alibaba Group.
Jack Ma, chairman and chief executive officer of the Alibaba Group. Ma’s company has leapfrogged Google to the number two spot in China online advertising market share behind Baidu, according to a report. (Bloomberg News)
In a breakdown of Chinese online advertising market share, Beijing research firm Analysys International says Alibaba has overtaken Google for second place behind Baidu thanks in large part to its online shopping unit Taobao.
Alibaba now owns a 9.3% market share and the number two spot in China’s online ad market, according to Analysys International (Word doc). Meanwhile, Analysys says, Google’s share fell 2 percentage points from the second quarter, when it held the number-two spot, to 8.9% in the third quarter.
Google also narrowly missed falling another rank. Internet portal operator Sina, in fourth place, had an 8.89% share that put it 0.01 percentage points behind Google, according to Analysys.
Baidu ranked first by a wide margin, with a 30.1% share putting it more than 20 percentage points ahead of the nearest competitor.
The loss of advertising market share marks a steady erosion of Google’s presence in China since the company relocated its mainland China search service to Hong Kong in March, citing frustrations over hacking and censorship."
This information is dated and from March 23, 2010. Following the Google fiasco in China (i.e. Google challenges China on political grounds), Baidu's stock market value has soared. I will post an updated valuation chart when it becomes available.
"Alibaba Passes Google in China Online Ads
December 9, 2010, 4:57 PM HKT
Research firms have already noted how Google’s slide in China’s online search market has been good for the company’s Chinese rival, Baidu. Now it appears Google may have given up ground to another Chinese internet giant: Alibaba Group.
Jack Ma, chairman and chief executive officer of the Alibaba Group. Ma’s company has leapfrogged Google to the number two spot in China online advertising market share behind Baidu, according to a report. (Bloomberg News)
In a breakdown of Chinese online advertising market share, Beijing research firm Analysys International says Alibaba has overtaken Google for second place behind Baidu thanks in large part to its online shopping unit Taobao.
Alibaba now owns a 9.3% market share and the number two spot in China’s online ad market, according to Analysys International (Word doc). Meanwhile, Analysys says, Google’s share fell 2 percentage points from the second quarter, when it held the number-two spot, to 8.9% in the third quarter.
Google also narrowly missed falling another rank. Internet portal operator Sina, in fourth place, had an 8.89% share that put it 0.01 percentage points behind Google, according to Analysys.
Baidu ranked first by a wide margin, with a 30.1% share putting it more than 20 percentage points ahead of the nearest competitor.
The loss of advertising market share marks a steady erosion of Google’s presence in China since the company relocated its mainland China search service to Hong Kong in March, citing frustrations over hacking and censorship."
AssassinsMace
Lieutenant General
China's Economic Growth Lifts Rest of World, IMF Study Says
By Sandrine Rastello - Dec 9, 2010 Economic data suggest that a 1 percentage point increase in China’s growth rate sustained over five years means an extra 0.4 percentage point of growth for the rest of the world, two experts at the International Monetary Fund said after studying figures for the past two decades.
“Analysis of a longer time period -- 1963-2007 -- suggests that the spillover effect of China’s growth has increased over time. Geographic distance seems to affect the strength of the spillover effects, with a stronger impact the closer a country is to China,” Vivek Arora and Athanasios Vamvakidis wrote in the IMF’s Finance and Development magazine December issue. “But the estimates also suggest that the role of distance has diminished over time.”
The pace of economic growth in China has an impact on the rest of the world, first through trade channels and then through capital flows, tourism and business confidence, the two authors said. The magazine was posted on the IMF website today.
“A few decades ago, China’s expansion influenced growth only in neighboring countries; it now affects growth all over the world,” the two IMF experts wrote. The size of the impact “has increased from negligible levels until about two decades ago to a sizeable impact more recently.”
China’s economic growth slowed to a 9.6 percent annual pace in the third quarter from 11.9 percent in the first three months of this year. Even as the expansion moderates, China is set to overtake Japan this year to become the world’s second-biggest economy.
To contact the reporters on this story: Sandrine Rastello in Washington at [email protected]
To contact the editors responsible for this story: Christopher Wellisz in Washington at [email protected]
.®2010 BLOOMBERG L.P. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.
By Sandrine Rastello - Dec 9, 2010 Economic data suggest that a 1 percentage point increase in China’s growth rate sustained over five years means an extra 0.4 percentage point of growth for the rest of the world, two experts at the International Monetary Fund said after studying figures for the past two decades.
“Analysis of a longer time period -- 1963-2007 -- suggests that the spillover effect of China’s growth has increased over time. Geographic distance seems to affect the strength of the spillover effects, with a stronger impact the closer a country is to China,” Vivek Arora and Athanasios Vamvakidis wrote in the IMF’s Finance and Development magazine December issue. “But the estimates also suggest that the role of distance has diminished over time.”
The pace of economic growth in China has an impact on the rest of the world, first through trade channels and then through capital flows, tourism and business confidence, the two authors said. The magazine was posted on the IMF website today.
“A few decades ago, China’s expansion influenced growth only in neighboring countries; it now affects growth all over the world,” the two IMF experts wrote. The size of the impact “has increased from negligible levels until about two decades ago to a sizeable impact more recently.”
China’s economic growth slowed to a 9.6 percent annual pace in the third quarter from 11.9 percent in the first three months of this year. Even as the expansion moderates, China is set to overtake Japan this year to become the world’s second-biggest economy.
To contact the reporters on this story: Sandrine Rastello in Washington at [email protected]
To contact the editors responsible for this story: Christopher Wellisz in Washington at [email protected]
.®2010 BLOOMBERG L.P. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.