Chinese cruise and anti-ship missiles

rhino123 said:

But I personally do not believe that a missile can cost this little even if it was using cheapo buy from shelf GPS system.

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The cheapest GPS receiver costs less than 50 dollars, servos for less than 30 dollars each, servo controller for less than 20 dollars, IMU for less than 100 dollars, a barometer for 20 dollars, and control all of them with two 10 dollar microcontrollers, then you just need some geeks to wire them up and programme them. Off the shelf small turbojet engines are quite expensive, but designing one that will only cost a few hundred dollars to build isn't difficult, get a fibreglass body, some explosives and a fuse, and off you go.

King_Comm said:

Due to the speed the missile flies at, it has to have inertial guidance system to control the missile between updates from satelites, and because it flies close to the ground, it has to have altimeter to prevent it from flying into the ground, so, if we can build a missile that flies at a high altitude (>2000m) at a slow speed (<0.4M), then we can use the cheapest off the shelf GPS receiver modules to provide both position and altitude, and IMU's to control the posture, and build a missile that will only cost a few thousand dollars.

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2000m is a bit too high. I think 20m is actually quite achievable at slow speed. Few thousand dollars is too cheap, so I would up the cost by a factor of 3 at least.

King_Comm said:

The cheapest GPS receiver costs less than 50 dollars, servos for less than 30 dollars each, servo controller for less than 20 dollars, IMU for less than 100 dollars, a barometer for 20 dollars, and control all of them with two 10 dollar microcontrollers, then you just need some geeks to wire them up and programme them. Off the shelf small turbojet engines are quite expensive, but designing one that will only cost a few hundred dollars to build isn't difficult, get a fibreglass body, some explosives and a fuse, and off you go.

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Sounds like a hobbyist project instead of a military standard ordinance. Explosives and rocket fuel aren't cheap. And making the parts rugged / reliable / safe enough to survive launch and the elements (storage, maintenance) probably will increase costs dramatically. Anything with autopilot and explosives will have rigorous safety standards and testing. Also, the geeks will need to be highly paid.

RedMercury said:

Also, the geeks will need to be highly paid.

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Yeah! I like the sound of that!!

RedMercury said:

Sounds like a hobbyist project instead of a military standard ordinance. Explosives and rocket fuel aren't cheap. And making the parts rugged / reliable / safe enough to survive launch and the elements (storage, maintenance) probably will increase costs dramatically. Anything with autopilot and explosives will have rigorous safety standards and testing. Also, the geeks will need to be highly paid.

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Yeah. I agree to that. Anyway, it would be much cheaper to just swarm and peppered the island state with rockets, short and long range and overwhelm any defences in the island, then take out high priority targets with the more expensive DH-10 missiles. In that case, you wouldn't need huge number of missiles, just land base MRLS and cheapo large caliber rockets, howitzers, etc.

As I am living in an island, I know how difficult it is to defence an island against much larger adversary who will be able to attack you from all and any area, and their rockets and shells are able to practically cover your entire island, so there really is no escape.

A country like china could actually achieve such feat with very minimal cost, because their rockets doesn't actually need to be highly accurate, the main aim is just to peppered the entire island. For high priority targets, they can use the more expensive missiles to achieve a hit.

In other cases, they can even use the rockets as decoy... and within these swarms of rockets, might hide a cruise missile. Thus even if the defence of the high-priority target are to be activated, which are they going to hit off the sky? Because if they chose the cruise missiles, the rockets might still able to hit the target and if large enough number of rockets are to be fired there are a high chance of destroying the target. If they are aimed at the rockets, which I doubt would do much damage because of the shear number of rockets, the cruise missile will take off the target effectively.

King_Comm said:

The cheapest GPS receiver costs less than 50 dollars, servos for less than 30 dollars each, servo controller for less than 20 dollars, IMU for less than 100 dollars, a barometer for 20 dollars, and control all of them with two 10 dollar microcontrollers, then you just need some geeks to wire them up and programme them. Off the shelf small turbojet engines are quite expensive, but designing one that will only cost a few hundred dollars to build isn't difficult, get a fibreglass body, some explosives and a fuse, and off you go.

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You cannot even buy servos for a simple subsonic target for such low prices. Believe me, I have costed all of these out for a customer who will remain nameless. The simplist digital flight control computer costs over $30K. Servos are five to seven grand a pop. Your ten dollar micro controller would not budge a flight control doing the high g maneuvers we demand of targets, much less the missiles themselves. You can't even buy the CAD's ( cartridge activated devices ) used to blow open the parachute compartment door and pop the chute open for under $30 bucks. I can't say who's target, but there is one made mostly of carbon fiber that is falling to pieces on it's owners. Fragile POS.
When you get into Mach 2 plus vehicles the computing power necessary to stay ahead of the vehicle is very very expensive, as are the necessary gyros. The servos for the flight controls must be extremely fast acting, and are things of beauty, gorgeous forgings necessary for strength. These require tremendous battery power too, usually from thermal batteries that are activated by an explosive cartridge. Others may use either gas grain generators ( essentially a slow burning rocket motor who's hot gasses are routed through valves to operate the flight controls ) or they can tap some of the gasses from the rocket propellant. Of course all of this is hideously expensive when you are building servos that must tolerate 2000 degree or hotter gasses and not fail. This is the sort of energy required to move a flight control at over Mach 2. I haven't even mentioned the special ways the flight controls must be manufactured. An aluminum flight control at those speeds will fold flat against the body of the rocket or target.
Btw, these targets are required to emulate a number of threat systems with a very high degree of fidelity. It is not a matter of some geeks getting together in a garage and building a cool target. The target must meet very specific performance requirements, and you might be surprised how even some aerospace giants cannot meet these specs. Here is a study done some years ago on one that failed. Northrop Grumman never made the engine do what they said it would, hence it was never fast enough.



Targets must be able to emulate the RF characteristics of the threat, including the precise radar cross section of whatever it is emulating during a presentation. There will be an emitter as well to simulate the target's seeker, and any countermeasures and towable heat sources to mimick the heat signature of a threat system.



Trust me, N-G does nothing for less than a seven digit number. That digital flight control computer I mentioned must be able to navigate upwards of fifty waypoints autonomously at the same altitudes and speeds as whatever it is simulating. It isn't good enough for the thing to just fly nicely, it must be programmable to behave exactly like an Exocet, C-802 or what have you. That such targets can be built for half a million or so is really quite an achievement.

How expensive do you imagine this big thing is?



Be patient with the BS count down at the beginning.

Ambivalent said:

You cannot even buy servos for a simple subsonic target for such low prices...

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LOL... Drones? Supersonic? What the heck does all that have anything remotely close to what King_Comm suggested?

You are talking about the real-deal. He is talking about something put together by someone who is fed up with society. As I recall, someone in Australia have attempted to do exactly such a thing, with approval, to demonstrate vulnerabilities in the country's defense. But the government put a stop to it right before the actual demonstration.

现场直击：新型鹰击62反舰导弹射程已达数百公里

辽东海岸一个偏僻的山坳里，随着指挥员“5、4、3、2、1、发射！”一连串指令的发出，某新型导弹喷射着烈焰撕破海空，扑向数百公里外的“敌舰”。

近日，北海舰队某岸导团举行新型导弹首次跨海机动实弹射击演练。此次导弹射击演练是该团根据新《大纲》相关课目和“新装备当年接装，当年形成战斗力”的高标准进行的。演练前，该团党委针对跨海机动实际，多次召开常委会，制定行军计划和预案，为部队安全、准时到达指定地点提供了重要依据。

演练展开后，该团采用海上输送、公路摩托化行军等多种机动方式，先后横跨渤海湾并穿越华东、华北、东北三区，准时到达指定地域。

异地开设临时战场后，他们又进行了半个多月的模拟发射训练和导弹技术检测。训练期间，官兵们克服了天气寒冷、雨雪冰冻等方面的影响，积极训练、精心准备，为成功打出第一枚导弹奠定了基础。

本次演练，该团向不同海域分批次发射导弹两枚，全部准确命中目标。演练探索总结了新型导弹跨海机动打击的宝贵经验，并在作战兵力拉动、演练课目和各方保障等方面创下了该团自成立以来的多项纪录。

组建于1958年的该岸舰导弹团，是解放军的第一支岸导部队。在今年国庆60周年大阅兵中，该团12台新型导弹战车编入导弹方阵光荣受阅.

Liaodong coast in a remote cove, with the commander, "5,4,3,2,1, launch!" A series of directives issued in the flames of a new missile jet tearing the sea air, rushed hundreds of miles away " enemy ship. "
Recently, the North China Sea Fleet held a shore-based missile regiment new missile for the first time across the sea mobility exercises with live ammunition.
Creating temporary battlefield, they also conducted a simulated launch half a month of training and testing of missile technology. During the training period, officers and soldiers to overcome the cold weather, freezing rain and snow and so the impact, positive training, careful preparation for the success of the first missile hit the foundation.
The exercises, the regiment to different area waters, launched two missiles to each water area, all hitting the target. Summed up the exercise to explore new types of missiles across the sea to combat mobile valuable experience, and pulling forces in combat, training topics, and the parties reached a regiment protection and so a number of records since its inception.

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"new missile" should be YJ-62, from the article say that the missile range about several hundreds km.

maozedong said:

[qimg]http://www.calf.cn/attachments/day_091212/20091212_5b41de0675434ad92e07DJLEndfz52mo.jpg[/qimg]


"new missile" should be YJ-62, from the article say that the missile range about several hundreds km.

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Might be a typo, but it says several hundred kms.