Chinese Citizens REVOLT in Wukan!!
- Thread starter Mr T
- Start date
Well I think I have to offer warm thanks to Mr T for his eloquent description of why and how the real issues will be buried in media mush.
Does anyone know the details of the land which is in contention? - who owns it, who has rights to it or what compensation has been paid or promised in respect of it?
Who are these corrupt officials we hear about? are they outsiders or are they villagers themselves with families in the village?
Are all the villagers in agreement with the current policy? are others being prevented from leaving and starting mediation? Is there in fact a conflict between clans
What are the conditions for lifting the siege and what measures do the vast majority of villagers face?
So what does not constitute a crime against humanity in this situation - using High Altitude Air Attacks, Long Range Artillery and Armoured Divisions like Israel or sending in the Infantry like the British did in Northern Ireland.
Is there any nation on earth that would tolerate a revolt of this kind against its authority without sanction?
I think not and I think that the action of Chinese Govt is the minimum that any Govt would take in such a situation and the recent stand off at the Essex (UK) Gypsy camp seems a very good, analogous example.
I would also guess that the biggest problem here is that nobody is prepared to negotiate with the authorities to resolve the matter.
Once again though we have media propaganda parody of the reality of the situation which is that a supposed Police State is being very reluctant to send in the Police to forcible resolve the matter.
Does anyone know the details of the land which is in contention? - who owns it, who has rights to it or what compensation has been paid or promised in respect of it?
Who are these corrupt officials we hear about? are they outsiders or are they villagers themselves with families in the village?
Are all the villagers in agreement with the current policy? are others being prevented from leaving and starting mediation? Is there in fact a conflict between clans
What are the conditions for lifting the siege and what measures do the vast majority of villagers face?
So what does not constitute a crime against humanity in this situation - using High Altitude Air Attacks, Long Range Artillery and Armoured Divisions like Israel or sending in the Infantry like the British did in Northern Ireland.
Is there any nation on earth that would tolerate a revolt of this kind against its authority without sanction?
I think not and I think that the action of Chinese Govt is the minimum that any Govt would take in such a situation and the recent stand off at the Essex (UK) Gypsy camp seems a very good, analogous example.
I would also guess that the biggest problem here is that nobody is prepared to negotiate with the authorities to resolve the matter.
Once again though we have media propaganda parody of the reality of the situation which is that a supposed Police State is being very reluctant to send in the Police to forcible resolve the matter.
There-in lies the concern. In the US at Kent State, Ohio, 4 unarmed protesters were killed by the Ohio National Guard in 1970. The protesters were upset with the federal government and Nixon about American foreign policy.
[video=youtube;pr-zRI7Gu-U]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pr-zRI7Gu-U&feature=related[/video]
Americans were horrified at the violence. In response to these killings, 4 million students rallied across the nation, 100,000 rallied in Washington DC. Vitriol against the Nixon regime was overwhelming and would later contribute to his fall.
In the past twenty years China has developed immensely. Twenty years ago, China did not have Netizens. These netizens hear "rumors" that Chinese military units are moving in toward Wakan.
Specifically;
source:
Mr T
Senior Member
Why not throw in the Viking Raids on England while you're at it? This is a thread about Wukan, not every historical injustice ever committed.
In any event, so what? I don't recall endorsing anything you referred to, nor do I think anyone else here has. If you want to disqualify yourself from this discussion because you support the right of governments to use any any all means of force to restore order, I don't have a problem with that. I don't follow that view, so I feel quite entitled to discuss the Wukan issue.
Wukan is a town of 20,000 people, and as far as I can see it's a legal settlement. It isn't an illegal camp that has been subject to a decade of litigation. Indeed, your example rather shows the huge difference between how the UK and Chinese authorities resolve land disputes. In the UK it can take many years for the authorities to have permission to do anything. In China officials often just do what they feel like.
Equation
Lieutenant General
When you finish reading that, try to answer this question:
Is the whole heap of judicial machinery -- the compendiums of laws, the storied court buildings -- all intended as just a façade (not to mention the many copy cats of classical architectural style)? Is keeping the public mollified -- even if it means convicting the wrong defendants and keeping the powerful out of trouble -- the practical aim and end process of all your judicature?
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Oh really? From the article below:
How does it make sense that the village doesn't have farmland? The whole issue is the local government illegally selling off the land owned by the villagers. What land do you propose that is then, if not farmland?
Equation
Lieutenant General
Wait till the economic conditions becomes dire and you will see a demanding change from the public for a more pragmatic government. Why do you think Communism and Socialism became so popular in the turn of the 20th century Europe?
Equation
Lieutenant General
Re: Chinese Daily Photos, Videos & News!!
And you don't think Homeland Security censor's your email and internet messages? The internet is NOT as free as it use to be compare to the earlier days. Do you even remember the debacle with the UK News of The World, hacking cell phones of victims just to get an inside scoop? So where the accountability and watchdog for those "free" media? Oh don't worry Rupert Murdoch still got money, and he'll just wait till the angers dies down and than start all over again with a different newspaper.
And you don't think Homeland Security censor's your email and internet messages? The internet is NOT as free as it use to be compare to the earlier days. Do you even remember the debacle with the UK News of The World, hacking cell phones of victims just to get an inside scoop? So where the accountability and watchdog for those "free" media? Oh don't worry Rupert Murdoch still got money, and he'll just wait till the angers dies down and than start all over again with a different newspaper.
Mr T
Senior Member
The issue is the sale of the town's remaining land. They've had land sold previously, but apparently tolerated it because they could get income from fishing.
Can you give me a time-frame and nominate some countries where this is likely to happen?
In Russia it was because they wanted an autocratic monarch gone and Lenin promised a government that listened to the people and acted in their best interests. I.e. they wanted more freedoms, not less.
Equation
Lieutenant General
Good points there, but the fact remains is that China is still in the drivers seat due to several reasons:
1. Good infrastructure has already been put in place. Yes you can try to send low end products into another country that can produce it for less, but they don't have the necessary tools, like roads, water, and even enough electricity to keep the lights on and the machines running.
2. Raw materials is available around the world, but no one can match with China's near monopoly in processing rare earth elements to produce computers and high tech gears, plus the infrastructure to get the materials at the factories quicker and more efficient.
3. Chinese engineers and workers are being sent over seas to do construction projects such as bridges, office buildings, air ports, and roads and rail roads. Not to mention many of the architectural and engineering firms all over the world are outsourcing their drafting and construction documents to China and India using CAD (computer aid design) systems.
4. To make up for the trade differences China is working with South American nations and African countries to open up trades to China as they too are suffering from a slow down of economic activities. Lately China, Japan, and South Korea are doing a study to together to see how each would benefit from an all out open trade among each other.