Chinese Aviation Industry

hmmwv

Junior Member
They are just not ready.

also the neo & max news

It will be couple of years of slip. but it is just as well because some the their technology has not matured to a point where it is useful.

The reason C919 is competitive is because it can come earlier than the re-engined neo and max. by about 5 years.

but if it is going to slip anyways it might as well be a full fledge competitor.

it will be competitive as long as it is demonstrated to be safe.

It sounds like CFM is having some delays on the Leap-X as well, since they have just announced that the design has been completed, test flight of the engine won't happen until 2014, so C919 will have to be delayed, but CFM is confident of a 2016 date for the engine to be ready for commercial service.
 

Lion

Senior Member
Of course not. You need lots of know-how and good scientists with experience. Thats something that money cant buy. You need many years of hard effort to get them.


Probably they did not dump enough money in? They need to be more spendthrift and not stingy. LOL..
 

delft

Brigadier
Of course not. You need lots of know-how and good scientists with experience. Thats something that money cant buy. You need many years of hard effort to get them.
Money buys time. They can and will just go on until they get it right. All new aircraft have flaws. That's why testing takes such a lot of time. Think of the Boeing 787 as an extreme example. But if the money runs out you have to stop. Think of the airship program for the British Imperial service that was halted after the accident with R.101. If there had been enough money the UK might have had half a dozen airships carrying reconnaissance aircraft and radar at the beginning of WWII and hunting of the Graf Von Spee would have been a lot easier.
 

escobar

Brigadier
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Chinese-made MA60 aircraft are flying 200 routes globally and their total flight hours have exceeded 150,000 hours, the aircraft's manufacturer said Sunday.

Thus far, more than 20 global customers have bought over 70 MA60 turboprop aircraft made by the Xi'an Aircraft Industry Company (XAC), the manufacturer said.

The first overseas order for MA60 came in 2005 when Zimbabwe signed a deal with XAC to purchase two MA60 aircraft.

Southeast Asia has become the vital market for the turboprop airliners. The MA60 aircraft exported to Laos, Indonesia, the Philippines and Myanmar remain in good condition and safe to fly, the manufacturer said.

In May 2012, XAC and Ukrainian Mars RK signed a purchase contract for three MA60 aircraft, the first time for it to be sold to a European customer.
 

Vini_Vidi_Vici

Junior Member
Probably they did not dump enough money in? They need to be more spendthrift and not stingy. LOL..

China right now has an over-supply of funds. What it needs is better management of its personnel, workflow and use of funds. Right now Chinese companies and corporations waste too much money on useless grounds. Another problem is the engineers and experts don't rely on protocols, rather relying on personal preferences and workflow. This is indeed quicker, but lead to more mistakes and less integration with the team.

I was Germany for some time, being an Italian, it really shocked me how cold and unflexible the German engineers are. Italians, as we all know, don't like to follow rules. But in Germany, I was surprised how German engineers spend days on a simple problem. They literally tackled the problem like a child learning algebra, applying the full formula and treat the equation the way their teacher taught them. This indeed was slow, but the blueprint could be easily understood by everyone. The most important of all, there were no mistakes at all. When I tackled a problem, I didn't follow the protocol and just free-styled. I did the whole thing in less than 30 minutes, which tool them 3 days. They thought I was a mad genius..... However..... embarrassingly I have to admit, the result was no where near the German quality.

Since I grew up in China, I noticed the Chinese culture is even more "loose" than the Italians. This is partially a good thing, but at the same time, not so great for modern engineering world that requires substantial collaborations between countless people.
 

kroko

Senior Member
China right now has an over-supply of funds. What it needs is better management of its personnel, workflow and use of funds. Right now Chinese companies and corporations waste too much money on useless grounds. Another problem is the engineers and experts don't rely on protocols, rather relying on personal preferences and workflow. This is indeed quicker, but lead to more mistakes and less integration with the team.

I was Germany for some time, being an Italian, it really shocked me how cold and unflexible the German engineers are. Italians, as we all know, don't like to follow rules. But in Germany, I was surprised how German engineers spend days on a simple problem. They literally tackled the problem like a child learning algebra, applying the full formula and treat the equation the way their teacher taught them. This indeed was slow, but the blueprint could be easily understood by everyone. The most important of all, there were no mistakes at all. When I tackled a problem, I didn't follow the protocol and just free-styled. I did the whole thing in less than 30 minutes, which tool them 3 days. They thought I was a mad genius..... However..... embarrassingly I have to admit, the result was no where near the German quality.

Since I grew up in China, I noticed the Chinese culture is even more "loose" than the Italians. This is partially a good thing, but at the same time, not so great for modern engineering world that requires substantial collaborations between countless people.

I agree. China has right now a lot of money. But it is very inefficient.
 

Lion

Senior Member
China right now has an over-supply of funds.

Are you sure about that sentence? Don't talk rot. Oversupply of funds? CCP always has strict control of funds for all project and frugal about overspending. Frugal and cost saving are always the protocol drill in their workforce culture. Look at the space project and see how much their budget compare to NASA.

If your sentence is right, PLA by now has already dump all Type-59 tank and deploy thousands Typ99A2 and project like Type96G will never exist.

There is reason why China product is the best value for money which many countries can't match. Their way of cost saving sometime is very efficient compare to others. The 3 trillion foreign reserve will never exist if overspending is in CCP culture.
 
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escobar

Brigadier
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The next decade will be prime years for regional turboprop aircraft, which presents great opportunities for China Aviation Industry Corporation(AVIC)'s subsidiary Xi'an Aircraft International Corporation (XAIC) to explore broader markets. Currently, XAIC is accelerating its research and production on new regional turboprop aircraft, Chen Fusheng, vice-general manager of AVIC said on the 4th Annual China Commercial Aircraft Forum 2012 held on June 14.

Chen pointed out that high fuel prices and carbon emission have further stimulated demands for turboprop aircraft in aviation industry. Actually, the amount of delivered turboprop aircraft has accounted for 50% of regional jets in the past five years.

Chen predicted that, there will come the next new prime period for the development of regional turboprop aircraft around 2017, for airlines need new aircraft to meet increasing market demand. And in the next two decades, 3,000 turboprop aircraft or so are estimated to be delivered around the world, among which 70-seat turboprop will be the mainstream of the market with a delivery amount of 2,465.

XAIC mainly engages in production and sales of regional turboprop aircraft and MA60 series aircraft is its main product. XAIC targets for claiming 40% quotient in the global market of regional turboprop aircraft by 2018.

Chen also added that, MA60 series entered international market in 2005; and now, 72 MA60s have been operated on more than 200 international and domestic routes. Moreover, XAIC plans to sign a new purchase contract with Okay Airways Company Limited for MA60 aircraft.

It is learned that the list price is around 90 million yuan for a MA60 aircraft and about 110 million yuan for a MA600 aircraft.

Chen further disclosed that apart from MA60 and MA600, XAIV is exploiting new regional turboprop aircraft - MA700, which is expected to have its first flight in 2015 and to be delivered to customers in 2017.
 

Deino

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
Again me .... can anyone give a brief summary of the current status for the WP-14 "Kunlun" ... seems IMO as if all latest J-7G and J-8-versions are still flying with the WP-13F (J-7G) or WP-13B or BII (J-8H/F) versions ?? :confused:

Deino
 
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