Chinese Aviation Industry

davidau

Senior Member
Registered Member
AG600 production has commenced:

1月26日下午,随着中航西飞部件装配现场铆枪声响起,大型灭火:水上救援水陆两栖飞机AG600首个大部件正式开铆,标志着中航西飞开启AG600项目攻坚战。

On the afternoon of January 26, accompanied by the sound of riveting guns at the assembly line of AVIC Xifei, the first major component of the amphibious fire-fighting and rescue plane AG600 was officially riveted, marking the start of the AG600 project at AVIC Xifei.


50883382757_59df6e8a75_o.jpg
China needs more of these craft in SCS, Hainan, East China Sea and for fire fighting capability.
 
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davidau

Senior Member
Registered Member
AG600 production has commenced:

1月26日下午,随着中航西飞部件装配现场铆枪声响起,大型灭火:水上救援水陆两栖飞机AG600首个大部件正式开铆,标志着中航西飞开启AG600项目攻坚战。

On the afternoon of January 26, accompanied by the sound of riveting guns at the assembly line of AVIC Xifei, the first major component of the amphibious fire-fighting and rescue plane AG600 was officially riveted, marking the start of the AG600 project at AVIC Xifei.


50883382757_59df6e8a75_o.jpg
China needs more of these aircraft in SCS, Hainan, East China Sea and for fire-fighting capability.
 
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gadgetcool5

Senior Member
Registered Member

China’s Potemkin Aviation Can’t Survive Without Washington’s Help – Jaweb​

After many decades and tens of billions of dollars, China’s airliners are case studies in failure. A few dozen dysfunctional turboprops and 43 ARJ21 regional jets are the only products in the air, and they represent less than 0.5 percent of China’s air service capacity. China’s air fleet comprises thousands of much larger Airbus and Boeing aircraft, which are from Europe and the United States. The turboprops have a dismal safety record, and the ARJ21 is overweight and obsolete with last-generation technologies. Meanwhile, the MA700 and the C919 single-aisle jetliners have been in development for years, with numerous delays, and merely aim to replicate Western products that have been flying for decades. And the proposed CR929 twin-aisle transport airliner is aspirational at best.

Even China’s minimal aviation achievements thus far would be useless without Western engines, avionics, systems, and everything else needed to get chunks of metal off the ground. The point of China’s joint ventures with Western companies is to make this possible domestically, but it still has a long way to go, and the MEU list might stop it altogether. Without Western equipment, China’s jetliners would be hollow shells.

The list also shows that developing these necessary systems with Chinese rather than U.S. technology would be highly impractical. Currently, China makes its own airframes, the structures of aircraft. Yet while airframes are complex objects, the technologies that make them fly are even more complex. They have more in common with semiconductors (and China’s semiconductor production has been difficult, to say the least). A crash program to develop engines, avionics, and other necessary technologies at home would take well over a decade and tens of billions of dollars, even if the country looks to Russia for assistance. It would also guarantee inferior, less reliable, and less efficient products fit only for a domestic market. No country has achieved this level of self-sufficiency with the possible exception of the Soviet Union in the 1970s and 1980s.

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manqiangrexue

Brigadier

China’s Potemkin Aviation Can’t Survive Without Washington’s Help – Jaweb​

After many decades and tens of billions of dollars, China’s airliners are case studies in failure. A few dozen dysfunctional turboprops and 43 ARJ21 regional jets are the only products in the air, and they represent less than 0.5 percent of China’s air service capacity. China’s air fleet comprises thousands of much larger Airbus and Boeing aircraft, which are from Europe and the United States. The turboprops have a dismal safety record, and the ARJ21 is overweight and obsolete with last-generation technologies. Meanwhile, the MA700 and the C919 single-aisle jetliners have been in development for years, with numerous delays, and merely aim to replicate Western products that have been flying for decades. And the proposed CR929 twin-aisle transport airliner is aspirational at best.

Even China’s minimal aviation achievements thus far would be useless without Western engines, avionics, systems, and everything else needed to get chunks of metal off the ground. The point of China’s joint ventures with Western companies is to make this possible domestically, but it still has a long way to go, and the MEU list might stop it altogether. Without Western equipment, China’s jetliners would be hollow shells.

The list also shows that developing these necessary systems with Chinese rather than U.S. technology would be highly impractical. Currently, China makes its own airframes, the structures of aircraft. Yet while airframes are complex objects, the technologies that make them fly are even more complex. They have more in common with semiconductors (and China’s semiconductor production has been difficult, to say the least). A crash program to develop engines, avionics, and other necessary technologies at home would take well over a decade and tens of billions of dollars, even if the country looks to Russia for assistance. It would also guarantee inferior, less reliable, and less efficient products fit only for a domestic market. No country has achieved this level of self-sufficiency with the possible exception of the Soviet Union in the 1970s and 1980s.

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There is nothing in China that cannot survive without the US and the US is there because leaving would cause China to rise up and replace American componentry as it does in every challenge. Staying is profitable for them. China's military aviation took off without America and its civil aviation can do the same. It's interesting to see how many times America will harm itself by desperately repeating the mistake of challenging Chinese innovation with bans.
 

gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
Well, he's being pessimistic but not without reason. Still I think that as the Chinese government devotes more resources to the civil aviation sector things will continue to improve. China has the capital to be able to go its own way in this sector. It took China a decade to catch up and beat the world's leading high speed rail technology and I doubt this will be much different.

The development of the ARJ21 and MA600 was protracted and the aircraft have their own share of issues but as first aircraft that was to be expected. As China's experience matures their products will improve too.

The fact is China's military aviation industry is quite advanced and if they leverage that into the civilian sector they'll be able to make competitive products. In the 1990s China got cutoff from Western defense products and they turned to Russia instead. It took two decades of development but now they have world competitive combat aircraft.

The Russians have the technology to make all the required aircraft from the regional to the mid size jet market. Even if for some reason China fails at developing their own products they could just license Russian aircraft like the Superjet NG and the MC-21. I doubt the Russians wouldn't license most of the technology. They need to pay the R&D costs to develop the technology some way and they have limited chances to export their aircraft outside of the ex-Soviet space to begin with.
 
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weig2000

Captain
Some updates on the status of C919 and how COMAC will be coping with potential US sanctions.

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China’s C919 jet rises above tech war turbulence​

China's answer to Airbus and Boeing narrow-body jets is finding ways around US ban on key parts and components
by
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February 17, 2021

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davidau

Senior Member
Registered Member
There is nothing in China that cannot survive without the US and the US is there because leaving would cause China to rise up and replace American componentry as it does in every challenge. Staying is profitable for them. China's military aviation took off without America and its civil aviation can do the same. It's interesting to see how many times America will harm itself by desperately repeating the mistake of challenging Chinese innovation with bans.
A fool never learns
 
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