Chinese Aviation Industry

A.Man said:

In the United States, there are so many regional jets, other than Airbus and Boeing, flying around. I can not believe that many Embraer 145's, 170's and Canadia 50 70 seats Crj's.

Click to expand...

Neither Airbus or Boeing have regional jets in their product line.
On the other hand, Mitsubishi Airplane had signed a service agreement with Boeing so Boeing will carry MRJ parts at all their depot.
As I had posted before price is only one factor in the overall decision making in purchasing a product in which down time links directly with generating profit.

There used to be massive trade fights between the US and Europe over their civilian aerospace industry. The US used to accuse Europe of subsidising Airbus and Europe used to counter that the US had its own indirect subsidies.
The ARJ 21 saga proves that China does not give up, which is a good sign. After about 30 or 40 ARJs have been manufactured It will go on a weight diet and after that it will be competitive. If they manage to put modern engines on it it could prove to be best in class, like the C919.

SinoSoldier said:

To play the devil's advocate, wouldn't you say that evaluating the quality of Chinese products based on howitzers alone is also broad-brushing in a sense?

Click to expand...

No.

SinoSoldier said:

To play the devil's advocate, wouldn't you say that evaluating the quality of Chinese products based on howitzers alone is also broad-brushing in a sense?

Click to expand...

Do you agree that not all Chinese products merit the "Made in China" stigma?

t2contra said:

Do you agree that not all Chinese products merit the "Made in China" stigma?

Click to expand...

The "Made in ..." formula was invented in GB in the 19th century to warn the unsuspecting British public of the inferior German cutlery versus the Sheffield product. But then the German knives proved to be superior .....

delft said:

The "Made in ..." formula was invented in GB in the 19th century to warn the unsuspecting British public of the inferior German cutlery versus the Sheffield product. But then the German knives proved to be superior .....

Click to expand...

I am curious about his rationality of his question.

SinoSoldier said:

To play the devil's advocate, wouldn't you say that evaluating the quality of Chinese products based on howitzers alone is also broad-brushing in a sense?

Click to expand...

There's been that Jane's assesment of production rates for Chinese forces, but it leaves a lot to be desired. Using Scramble.nl I tried to do a list of my own but still some regiments that had received new planes in the last five years do not have exact years of when they got new toys mentioned.

So far what i got:
PLAAF:
2009: one jh7 regiment, two j10 regiments
2010: two j11 regiments
2011: one j11 regiment, one j8 regiment, two jh7 regiments
2012: two j10 regiments
2013: one j10 regiment
2014: none found

PLANAF:
2009: one jh7 regiment
2010: one j10 regiment
2011: none
2012: none
2013: one j11 regiment
2014: one j11 regiment


Now, the above list is surely incomplete. We usually accept that PLANAF operates three j11b regiments. If so, one more had to receive j11 sometime during 2010-2014 period. Then there's the j15 planes, probably received in numbers during 2014 but info just isn't available.
If we disregard 2014 as too recent to yield enough leaked info, and take into account 2009 instead,
we get a five year period during which plaaf and planaf received a total of 12 regiments for plaaf and 4 regiments for planaf. Roughly speaking - that is around 400 tactical combat aircraft within a 5 year period. Or roughly 80 tactical combat planes per year.

It'd be interesting to try and make a similar list for 2004-2008 period and compare. As well as try to monitor 2014 and onward, when enough info becomes available, to see if the quantities are going up or down or staying the same...

Here's the same (from scramble.nl) for 2004 to 2008 period.

PLAAF
2004. - one j10 regiment, one q5d regiment, one j7g regiment, one jh7 regiment
2005. - one j7g regiment
2006. - one j8f regiment, one j10 regiment
2007. - one j10 regiment, one jh7 regiment
2008. - one j11b regiment

PLANAF
2004. one su30mk2 regiment, one jh7 regiment
2005. none
2006. one jh7 regiment
2007. one j8f regiment
2008. none

Total would be 10 PLAAF and 4 PLANAF regiments for roughly 320+ planes. (that's not taking into account russian made su30)

Lists to do not take into account demo groups or FTTC brigade as there is no year mentioned when they changed planes. So actual figures for both 5 year periods feature possibly a dozen more j10 each.

Also, let's keep in mind not only Scramble.nl is far from an official source, it's made by enthusiasts like us, and that years they cite may in fact be a sighting that's months/a year old, compared to actual date of a regiment receiving new planes. That's likely explanation for the seeming boom of 2004 when 5 regiments worth of new domestic planes were allegedly taken into service. It could mean 2004-2008 period actually had less planes produced, possibly under 300?

Anyhow, it does seem there has been an increase in production. Whereas 2004-2008 period saw possibly 55-65 tactical combat planes made per year, 2009-2013 period saw that number rise to 80. A 33% increase rate - pretty impressive, really.

The JL-600's tail section is also ready !

作为我国自主研制的“三个大飞机”之一，由中国航空工业集团公司（中航工业）研制的大型灭火/水上救援水陆两栖飞机中后机身、后机身于4月27日在中航飞机汉中飞机分公司下架。这是继中航飞机西安分公司的中机身大部件、中航工业成飞民机的机头大部件下架之后，AG600研制的又一个重要里程碑，标志着该机型向2015年底前在珠海完成总装、2016年实现首飞目标迈出了关键一步。（李居阳 摄

via Bing:

As China's independently developed the "three big planes", one by the China Aviation Industry Corporation (AVIC) developed in large fire/water rescue amphibious aircraft aft fuselage, rear fuselage under the AVIC aircraft aircraft branch in Hanzhong city on April 27. XI an branch, this is the second aircraft, AVIC into large parts of the fuselage after flying under the nose large parts of civil aircraft, AG600 is another important milestone in the development marks the model to the finish in Zhuhai before end of 2015, 2016 achieved its maiden flight took a key step. (Li Juyang photography)b

Russia plans to sign the final agreement of the joint helicopter construction deal with China next month in May.

Russian Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin said Tuesday that the Chinese are “very interested” in the project and both sides are ready to sign final agreement.

HANGZHOU (Sputnik) – Russia and China plan on signing a final agreement in May after “dotting all the i’s” in the joint construction of a series of helicopters, Russian Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin said Tuesday.

“Yesterday, we agreed on the final details with this big project…Therefore, we hope that already in May we will dot all the i’s and sign the final document,” Rogozin said after a meeting with Chinese Vice Premier Wang Yang in Eastern China.

Rogozin added that the Chinese are “very interested” in the project and are one of the main investors in it. According to Rogozin, the project is seen as a commercial deal.


“We have informed the Chinese side that today Russia’s aviation engine construction has the ability to build an engine that may be used in the Russian-Chinese helicopter,” Rogozin said.

Last year Rogozin said the modernization of the Russian Mi-26 Halo helicopter would make the aircraft lighter, but its cargo capacity would retain its prior limits of up to 15 metric tons.

Click to expand...

Source: