Chinese ATGM discussion
- Thread starter Broccoli
- Start date
Pakistan got ToT on HJ8 I believe.
Apparently the Egyptians are utilising Chinese missiles on their ground vehicles, was wondering the terms of agreement when it comes to TOT.
The anti-tank variant has a four-round launcher that raises from the rear compartment and appeared to be armed with the Poly Technologies GAM-102 anti-tank missile that uses an imaging infrared seeker to guide itself to its target. The IMUT video showed the missile being tested from a Dongfeng CSK141 light armoured vehicle but not an ST-100.
The precision attack missile variant was shown with two different types of weapon, one of which was seen labelled as the CM-501GA, another Poly Technologies product. The video included test footage that it said showed the missile hitting a target 41.3 km away with an accuracy of 0.12 m.
AssassinsMace
Lieutenant General
The "C-704" that hit the Sa'ar 5 was supposedly said to be an Iranian licensed copy.
Was it a C-704 or C-802? I heard different versions.
AssassinsMace
Lieutenant General
Yeah I remember they were saying C-802 at first but later C-704.
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Apologies for the massive link.
This is from Yankeesama's wechat, where he talks about a new ATGM test launched from Z-10s.
The full text is as below, but the key points is that this new ATGM looks to have significant improvements from the current serving AKD-10 that serves as the primary heavy helicopter ATGM.
Among other improvements, is multimode guidance (ImIR and MMW radar) with advanced datalinking capabilities to enable significantly longer ranged engagement and I enhanced multi-domain/joint/cooperative engagements.
Yankee personally speculates its effective range to be at least double that of the AKD-10.
No exact statement on the size of the missile but he partly implies it may fit in the AKD-10s same footprint but is expected to at least be heavier
A few pictures below from a paper he references that talks about the new missile:
And the full original text below. Some other pictures are omitted because of image limit and because they're not relevant and only for reference in the original article
Apologies for the massive link.
This is from Yankeesama's wechat, where he talks about a new ATGM test launched from Z-10s.
The full text is as below, but the key points is that this new ATGM looks to have significant improvements from the current serving AKD-10 that serves as the primary heavy helicopter ATGM.
Among other improvements, is multimode guidance (ImIR and MMW radar) with advanced datalinking capabilities to enable significantly longer ranged engagement and I enhanced multi-domain/joint/cooperative engagements.
Yankee personally speculates its effective range to be at least double that of the AKD-10.
No exact statement on the size of the missile but he partly implies it may fit in the AKD-10s same footprint but is expected to at least be heavier
A few pictures below from a paper he references that talks about the new missile:
And the full original text below. Some other pictures are omitted because of image limit and because they're not relevant and only for reference in the original article
这则刊登于《中国航空报》2020年7月14日头版、题为《贺兰山下歌声振》的报道，公开了传闻已久的国产武装直升机用新一代空地导弹试射成功的消息。虽然报道里没有提及导弹的更多细节，但其实从新型导弹的试验区域变化，就能大概猜到其性能上相比我军武直现役空地导弹的一大进步之处。
▲我军现役三型武装直升机的主力空地导弹都是AKD9，尺寸稍大的AKD10主要用于直-10；下图可见外贸型蓝箭-7和蓝箭-9（重量仅为26千克）的尺寸对比
作为与直-10配套的、我国第一款专门研制的机载反坦克导弹，AKD10研制启动很早，保证了该弹能在2004年随着使用PT6C-67B的直-10原型机进入调整试飞和靶场试验阶段。从最早的无控飞行验证弹（在试飞中往往被称作“火箭弹”），到无战斗部的遥测弹和最终定型的战斗弹，这十多枚导弹的适应性靶试都是在位于陕西华阴的兵器工业试验测试研究院某基地/华阴兵器试验中心进行的。
▲在“装甲与反装甲日”上展示的多型外贸空地导弹，可见气动布局与AKD10相似，但明显放大的蓝箭-11和蓝箭-21；后者最大射程达25千米，使用复合制导模式
虽然相比之前直-9武装型系列用红箭-8对付的时代强了很多，但受限于研制时的技术储备情况，AKD10在尺寸、重量与美制“地狱火”导弹相当的同时时，射程要明显短于后者特别是其改进型；相比广泛用于卡-52的俄制9K121“旋风”系列时，AKD10虽然破甲深度（“旋风”宣传中的最大破甲深度为1200毫米）有一定优势，但射程和速度（“旋风”最大射程12千米，最大速度600米/秒）上的劣势都很明显。
▲蓝箭-7是AKD10的出口型，从其公开的尺寸、射程等指标基本可以推测AKD10的情况
而为了对抗现代野战防空系统，美俄两国的武装直升机都在测试射程更大的新一代空地导弹。美国陆军去年8月底在尤马试验场用“长弓阿帕奇”武装直升机试射了以色列提供的“长钉-NLOS”导弹，该测试项目的主管鲁根准将表示，“我们在试验中进行了非常具有挑战性的射击测试。这是一次同‘多域作战’相关的射击，‘长钉’导弹能够打击32公里以外的目标，像它这样的远程精准打击武器将提供美陆军所需要的防区外打击能力，使美陆军的航空装备成为‘多域作战’中不可或缺的角色。”
▲“多域作战”是美陆军正在发展的作战学说，说人话就是列装更多的防区外武器，基于网格化的战场信息体系，使得本平台无需靠自身传感器发现目标即可发射，实现规避敌火力、突破敌防线的“层层剥皮”效果
虽然以色列自己的“阿帕奇”挂载的“长钉-NLOS”的射程对外宣传是25千米，咱也不知道到鲁根准将这儿就成了32千米，但甭管怎么说这射程确实比“地狱火”有了跨越式进步；而且依靠复合导引头、双向数据链等新技术、它在传统的激光半主动制导上增加的更多更灵活的制导方式——包括现在流行的在无人机或地面平台帮助下的“A射B导”——也都很对美军的胃口。
▲2017年，以色列空军113中队的“阿帕奇”公开展示“长钉-NLOS”（图中左侧双联发射箱），这套组合也已经在以色列近年来周边实战中用过多次了
最重要的是，作为一款货架产品，“长钉-NLOS”虽然比美国自己吭哧半天的“（多模）联合空地导弹”JAGM/AGM-179尺寸重量都大不少，但各种指标和实用性那是不知高到哪里去了，价格反而便宜1/3。所以虽然嘴上说“‘长钉-NLOS’不会取代JAGM”，但美军对以色列导弹的喜爱还是溢于言表，频繁演练使用其对抗中俄防空系统的战法。
▲作为字面意义上“地狱火”的换代产品，虽然AGM-179在2018财年被赋予了低速量产合同，但目前仍处于小批试用状态，美军武直主力空地导弹仍然是“地狱火”
在射程25千米级别的武直空地导弹上，俄罗斯也拿出了自己的最新产品，这就是去年在俄红星台著名记者叶戈罗夫的《军事验收》节目中露面的“产品305”空地导弹。根据塔斯社去年3月20日的报道，米-28NM或者卡-52可以挂载8枚“产品305”，该型导弹同样采用复合制导，并在叙利亚的反恐实战中试用过。
▲米-28NM外侧挂架挂载2枚“产品305”，从该弹以裸弹形式挂载来看，明显还处于测试阶段
另外，俄罗斯图拉仪器制造设计局曾在2010年展示过一款类似“通古斯卡”弹炮系统的9M311地空导弹，但把第二级改为重达28千克的多用途战斗部的半主动激光制导/红外成像制导多用途导弹。这种名为“格尔梅斯”（Гермес）的导弹，最大射程20千米以上，俄方还宣称未来有射程100千米的改进型。根据2016年多家俄媒的报道，俄海军的卡-52K已经开始挂载“格尔梅斯”测试，并随“库兹涅佐夫”号航母的叙利亚部署行动而展开战场检验。
▲基于防空导弹的低阻外形，“格尔梅斯”有着良好的高速性能，其平均速度也有500m/s；但其整体太大太重（3.5米长，110千克重），并不太适合用于武装直升机
相比美俄的不同选择，国产新一代武直机载空地导弹虽然外观细节仍处于外界不得而知的“黑箱”状态；但从“即使放眼世界，也属于领先水平”的评价，加上该弹需要前往空域更大的阿拉善某试验基地完成试射，而非像AKD10那样在华阴就能搞定，其在射程上有着至少翻倍式的跨越都属于偏保守的估计了。
▲根据公开论文内容，新一代导弹实现了防区外远程打击、全天候作战和“发射后不管”等几项重要指标，应用红外/毫米波复合制导和数据链等技术，具备在陆军战场信息化网络下完成智能化弹道规划、目标选择和识别的能力
Although the miniaturization of the system has always been the goal of the development of various types of airborne missiles, the size and weight of the new missiles cannot completely stay on the AKD10 standard. This inevitably makes many people worry, "Can the small body of the Straight-10 carry new missiles?" As we mentioned in February of this year, , through the use of a more powerful turboshaft-9 modified engine, was equipped with a new domestically produced curved mixing tube. A generation of infrared suppressors has reduced the signal characteristics and comprehensively improved the survivability of the battlefield. With the mass replacement of turboshaft-9 improved engines, this more powerful "reloaded thunderbolt" is appearing in more army aviation units in our army, and its power redundancy is completely sufficient to deal with loaded bombs. Increase in volume.
▲As the main armed helicopter with the best performance in our army, the Zhi-10 is constantly being upgraded to meet the needs of the battlefield environment in key combat directions
In addition to power upgrades, as a later model than the J-10, the Zhi-10 also uses a similar level of integrated avionics system and airborne bus system, with task management as the core, achieving a high degree of system integration. This also facilitates the use of new missiles in subsequent software upgrades. In addition, our army has a large number of Zhi-19 armed helicopters. It is very likely that new missiles will also need to be considered for use on Zhi-19, so as to fully upgrade the quality of our armed helicopters’ attack firepower outside the defense zone, and enhance military and aviation breakthroughs. The combat effectiveness and survivability of the troops.
▲Although several models of masthead millimeter-wave radar have been tried on Zhi-19, today, with the continuous integration of modern land battlefield information, the use of new missiles does not necessarily rely on the "long bow" of the carrier aircraft itself. It can be realized; therefore, the difficulty of the new bomb is not so much the extension of the range itself, but rather the construction of the supporting information system.
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