Quickie
Colonel
Yes, I've notised that. I used the middle of PL-21 to estimate the diameter.
Chinese air to air missiles
- Thread starter tphuang
- Start date
Yes, I've notised that. I used the middle of PL-21 to estimate the diameter.
Quickie
Colonel
Assuming the diameter of the PL-21 is only 1.5 times larger, the size of the missile will still be 2.25 times larger than PL-12D.
Use the middle for thickness, but you also need to multiple the length by about 1.4 (assuming the picture is a 45 degree view).
Looks like it is about the PL-12D. A lot of chatter on the Chinese boards about it.
the first one is just your typical Chinese newspaper that quotes some American source, most likely JDW or Richard Fisher or Carlo Kopp or one of these people. I don't take that too seriously. But there is no question that China has quite a robust AAM program going. We will have to wait and see as usual.
Hendrik_2000
Lieutenant General
You bet Here is another article about the same missile from Wendell Minnick He quoted Richard Fisher with his usual "copy" stuff
We can't have China more advanced than US Can we. They must copied from the Russian even though the Russian doesn't have dual seeker missile
“Nevertheless, it is a troubling development,” he said. “That the PLA could field an AAM featuring an active/passive guidance system potentially before the U.S. deploys [the AIM-120D] is not where we want to be.”
Well we shouldn't be worried They only made crappy missile after all. Let Japanese and Indian worried about it
it’s nothing our Air Force needs to worry too much about, it’s certainly going to raise the stakes in India, Japan and Taiwan.”
China Reveals New AMRAAM
By WENDELL MINNICK
TAIPEI — China has revealed a next-generation air*to-air missile that the state-run People’s Daily called a “trump card” and a “secret weapon for gaining air superiority.” The Beijing newspaper published its report on May 19, during a week of visits to U.S. bases and meetings with senior U.S. defense officials by the People’s Liberation Army (PLA) chief of general staff, Gen. Chen Bingde.
Dubbed the “Key Model,” the new missile is believed by U.S. analysts to be the PL-12D, a variant of the PL-12 family of air-to-air missiles (AAMs) produced by the Luoyang Electro-Optics Technology Development Center.
China arms its fighter jets with the PL-12A, which closely resembles the U.S. AIM-120 medium-range air-to-air missile (AMRAAM) in appearance and capabilities, and it exports the SD-10A.
The newspaper said the new weapon “exceeded the U.S. AIM-120D missile” in seven recent tests in the Gobi Desert. The AIM-120D, the latest AMRAAM variant, has not yet been fielded.
“I’m not surprised at all about this, given the Chinese gift for missile-making,” said a U.S. specialist on Chinese missiles. “Clearly, the Air Force air-to-air mission has become a big prestige-garnering mechanism for the PLA, and while it’s nothing our Air Force needs to worry too much about, it’s certainly going to raise the stakes in India, Japan and Taiwan.” The analyst said the situation reminded him of the unveiling of the J-20 stealth fighter during U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates’ recent visit to China.
“What is interesting is that the People’s Daily is touting it — and while the big PLA delegation is in town” in Washington, he said.
The timing appears “counterproductive and pride-driven,” especially when Taiwan is pushing the U.S. to release new F-16C/D fighters and upgrades for older F-16A/Bs, he said.
The PL-12D might use a new active/passive guidance system, said Richard Fisher, a China defense analyst at the International Assessment and Strategy Center, an Alexandria, Va., think tank.
“This kind of combined guidance system confers concealment/stealth advantages, while the passive mode also uses less battery power, allowing the missile to achieve its maximum range,” Fisher said.
The People’s Daily report said that Fan Huitao spent 10 years developing the “Key Model.” Described as the “chief model designer” who took over the project in 2000, Fan began working for Luoyang after graduating in 1986 from China’s Northwestern Polytechnical University.
Though Chinese media reports called the missile a breakthrough for indigenous technology, Fisher said, “There is a high probability that Luoyang relied on Ukrainian and Russian technology for the latest seeker, as it did for its earlier versions.” Some Chinese-language blogs said a ramjet powers the new missile, but Fisher said he was not convinced.
“Nevertheless, it is a troubling development,” he said. “That the PLA could field an AAM featuring an active/passive guidance system potentially before the U.S. deploys [the AIM-120D] is not where we want to be.”
Last edited:
Quickie
Colonel
I didn't see your reply earlier. If the length is scaled to 1.4 times, the thickness at the front of the missile should be used instead
Last edited:
There is a perspective issue. It depends on how far the photo was taken.
If the photo was taken far away, then it doesn't matter because the front and rear won't be that much different.
However, that photo was taken from close distance. So you need to use the middle section's width, and 1.4x of the length. If you use the front width, then you probably will need to x2.0+.
You can use a tube and digital camera and do some experiment and you will see what I mean.
Quickie
Colonel
Scaling the missile length to 1.4 times (from a 45 degree angle of view) is actually bringing the end of the missile nearer to the camera to the same distance as that from the front of the missile to the camera. If the middle width of the missile is to be used, the change in magnification along the length of the missile will have to be calculated. Assuming magnification along the whole length of missile is 2.5 times, the middle width will have to multiply by 2.5/1.75 times. The largest diameter of the missile in the image is actually at 80% (or thereabout) of the whole length of the missile. For this reason, it will need to be multiply by 2.5/2.2 to get everything to scale if a perpendicular view is to be desired.
Last edited:
It is only 1.4X of width if the photo is taken with telephoto lens. But with tele, the front and end will appear about the same thickness.
With normal lens, if you keep the front at the same position and rotate the end closer, it will be much more than 1.4X on the photo. Same, if you keep the end at the same position, and rotate the front farther, it will be much less than 1.4X.
We are talking about photography. Best way is to experiment it yourself. Take a picture of a pen at 45 degrees, then rotate. you will see what I mean.
Quickie
Colonel
Assuming the length is 2X the apparent length of the PL-21 in that angled shot, the missile is still 1.5X bigger in diameter (Estimated from 3X diameter and 2X length, and then adjust them to scale) , about 2.25 times bigger in size than the PL-12D
That is, assuming the length of the 2 missiles are the same. Admittedly, we have no way of knowing this.
Last edited: