China's transport, tanker & heavy lift aircraft

lcloo said:

Can you please provide source of your information? And what is the intended thrust of engine?

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Hi lcloo,

Sorry I had none, but reading from Huitong blog, the desired engine is still under development.

CHINA MILITARY AVIATION (Huitong)

At the 2014 Zhuhai Airshow a "" design was unveiled by SAC as . This design with a cargo capacity of approximately 30t resembles European A-400M but appears smaller due to a less powerful engine (~5,000kw/WJ-10?). It might also borrow some technologies developed for the larger Y-20. The emergence of Y-30 suggested that Y-9 could be an interim product with inherent limitations due to its design originated from An-12. A recent news (May 2017) suggested that Y-30 project finally entered the initial development stage.

ansy1968 said:

Hi lcloo,

Sorry I had none, but reading from Huitong blog, the desired engine is still under development.

CHINA MILITARY AVIATION (Huitong)

At the 2014 Zhuhai Airshow a "

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" design was unveiled by SAC as

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. This design with a cargo capacity of approximately 30t resembles European A-400M but appears smaller due to a less powerful engine (~5,000kw/WJ-10?). It might also borrow some technologies developed for the larger Y-20. The emergence of Y-30 suggested that Y-9 could be an interim product with inherent limitations due to its design originated from An-12. A recent news (May 2017) suggested that Y-30 project finally entered the initial development stage.

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Thank you.

FangYuan said:

China needs heavy transport helicopters like the Mi-26 and heavy transport aircraft like the AN-124.

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Not really. Although china has bought the mi-26 in the past, it was for niche aplications, like forestry management or fire-fighting. IMO not worth of mounting a whole project to develop it something of this class, and china hasnt moved into this direction. As for the AN-124, china hasnt shown any interest in buying it, they dont have large bases abroad to mount/supply. Y-20 is enough for china.

gelgoog said:

There is in fact a collaboration between the Russians and Chinese into developing a Mi-26 successor helo.
The Russians are developing an engine for this helicopter initiative (PD-12V).

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The sino-russian helicopter project is probably a techo-political project that wont see the light of the day. As for the PD-12V, AFAIK, its a russian engine that replaces the ukranian engines that mi-26 used. Not in the same class weight of the sino-russian helicopter.

gelgoog said:

The Russians supposedly have a project with similar payload capability called Slon (Elephant) which would use the PD-35 engine which should be available near the end of this decade. So it would be a 4x engine aircraft with similar payload as the 6x engine An-225.

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I very much doubt that this slon will see the light of the day. Too much investment and russia really doesnt need it. The an-124 that they have is enough.

gelgoog said:

Or pickup an Antonov design with either the An-178 or An-188 projects.

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Why should china get partnership with ukraine for this? They really dont need it. And besides, it would be politically tricky for ukraine now.

Hope this has not already been posted. Is China is still trying to revive this deal with Antonov?

peterc said:

Hope this has not already been posted. Is China is still trying to revive this deal with Antonov?

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Interesting. How good are their engines? China already has engines near the end of development for jet fighters.

The only value I see from this is if they can replace western engines on COMAC's planes

Didn't a D18 explode on an An-124 like 10 days ago?

sndef888 said:

Interesting. How good are their engines? China already has engines near the end of development for jet fighters.

The only value I see from this is if they can replace western engines on COMAC's planes

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Motor Sich has a lot of experience with gas turbines. Although most of the technology is Soviet-era, it should still have a wealth of knowledge regarding metallurgy and materials science that would fill in a lot of gaps in the Chinese gas turbine industry, and jet engines by extension. Those are the same technologies that Russia would be reluctant to divulge if it had a say.

sndef888 said:

Interesting. How good are their engines? China already has engines near the end of development for jet fighters.

The only value I see from this is if they can replace western engines on COMAC's planes

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Their engines were state of the art in the early 1980s. Still in use in several platforms.
They basically produce engines for civilian transport aircraft and helicopters. The engines run across the entire spectrum.

I think it would have been a better deal a couple decades back, but there might still be something of interest there.
The engines could at least be used as placeholders. For example their engines are at least a generation ahead of the D-30 used in the Y-20.
So they could help fill the gap until more modern engines become available.

I think they are doomed unless they let the Chinese at least acquire a stake in it. There are Western engines available (in a lot of cases more modern) for everything they build plus they are certified and in use. But typically those Western companies won't open up their secrets to the Chinese. In the case of the Russians, even if they could sell engines to them, the Russians have developed replacements for half the engines on their portfolio, in some cases with better performance, and are in the process of replacing the rest with more modern technology.

peterc said:

Is China is still trying to revive this deal with Antonov?

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Doubtfully. That is an article from october 5. Acording to this topwar article from november 18, Skyrizon and Xinwei want to sue the ukrainian government for 3,5 billion dolars in compensation, because the ukrainian government hasnt allowed the chinese companies to exercise their property rights in the company.



IMO, it has become politically tricky for ukraine to have military cooperation with china.

I think we will see the new Y-20 powered by WS-20 soon.