Maintenance logistics.
China's transport, tanker & heavy lift aircraft
- Thread starter Totoro
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Lieutenant General
What about 3D modeling printing those off the shelf parts? Especially with today's technology along with light and strong materials to print it out.
When I first heard of Chinese interest in the An-225, I immediately assumed the real interest was in the design of the An-124.
The An-225 as a majority is based squarely on An-124 components. The wing (with root extensions) the fuselage (with plugs fore and aft of the wing) and the vast majority of controls and subsystems are all An-124, which is the premier heavy lift cargo aircraft, civil and military, in the world.
So it might be that only a "one off" An-225 is required. ..yet...there is added benefit in being able to study the solutions, structures, and systems that Antonov developed for the An-124 too.
Only my opinion of course...it will be interesting to see what transpires.
The An-225 as a majority is based squarely on An-124 components. The wing (with root extensions) the fuselage (with plugs fore and aft of the wing) and the vast majority of controls and subsystems are all An-124, which is the premier heavy lift cargo aircraft, civil and military, in the world.
So it might be that only a "one off" An-225 is required. ..yet...there is added benefit in being able to study the solutions, structures, and systems that Antonov developed for the An-124 too.
Only my opinion of course...it will be interesting to see what transpires.
An-124 and -225 were built in Kiev and the Antonov organization is now part of a conglomerate that is unable to support it. If China wants to buy the capacity to build An-124 and Antonov would be happy to sell all kind of ignorant politicians in Washington DC would be up in arms. So China buys the capacity to build An-225 that includes the capacity to build An-124 and the completion of the second An-225 in Kiev is a teaching project for many Chinese technicians and a way for Ukrainians working for Antonov to be recruited for work on these planes in China. I think this is the model we're looking at.
I'm still wondering about the production of engines for these aircraft. Is that capability bought too?
I'm still wondering about the production of engines for these aircraft. Is that capability bought too?
Although myself is very interested to the idea of introducing Antonov's expertise into China, if possible buy up Antonov. But so far the whole thing (An-225) is still very murky. In a way similar to the Varyag/Liaoning aircraft carrier's early days, a very shadowy unknown Chinese company registered in Hongkong on the front line. And in the mean time, Antonov has admitted something while this shadowy company managed to brought in the head of a province into their agreement signing ceremony, that gave it quite some credibility.
Regarding usefulness, I prefer the weight class of An-124.
Regarding usefulness, I prefer the weight class of An-124.
With trump saying Russia isn't occupying any part of Ukraine, I am sure Kiev would be in the mood to care deeply about how selling not quite state of the art transport planes to china would appear in Washington.
I personally think the story of china wanting to either produce or get whatever comes with the license to produce An-225 is bogus.
If china can design and produce the Y-20, she knows almost everything she needs to produce something in the class of the An-124 or An-225. All she would be missing are the time to produce the design, to tool up the production line and to acquire the appropriate engines.
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Hendrik_2000
Lieutenant General
The Chinese seaplane AG600 completed its first low speed test today.
The Chinese seaplane AG600 completed its first low speed test today.
No, that was already done days ago ... but this is a new one:
Hendrik_2000
Lieutenant General
China start design of new transport plane Y 30. With higher bunker and higher tonnage this should replaced the outdated Y8, Y9 series. Is bunker the correct terminology or mistranslation? he meant bunk head?
design phase of its new military transport aircraft Y-30 (?). The information was revealed in early March by , where the plane will be built.
The new medium-sized military transport aircraft made its first public appearance two years ago, in the form of a model, at the Zhuhai 2014 Air Show. It is marked "New medium-sized transport aircraft" on the With a small inscription "Y-30" on the vertical tailplane. This may mean that the Y-30 reference may not yet have been approved by the Chinese military but remains an internal reference of the manufacturer.
The Y-30 model presented at the Zhuhai 2014 Aeronautics Show
Front view of Y-30
The entry "New medium-haul aircraft"
The reference "Y-30" on the tailplane of the model
If the model is representative of the final aircraft, its aerodynamic configuration is quite similar to other four-turboprop military transport aircraft, such as the American C-130J and the EuropeanA400M, for example.
The Y-30 has a high wing design that reduces the height between the cargo floor and the ground to facilitate loading and unloading, and also avoids the projection of rubble against engines during take-off and landing. Landing of the craft on unprepared ground.
The T-stabilizer improves the efficiency of the control surfaces by avoiding the turbulence generated by the wing and makes the design of the large bunker doors at the rear easier.
There is also a change in the width and the height of the section with respect to the Y-8 and Y-9 whose design derives from the Antonov An-12 . Indeed, the Y-30, like the Y-20 heavy transport aircraft, now favors a wider and higher bunker to be able to bring in equipment that has become increasingly bulky these days.
For the time being we have not yet had any formal communication by the Chinese aircraft manufacturer on the targeted performance of the aircraft, and the figures published in 2014 have voluntarily remained rather vague, which is not surprising - Of AVIC, questioned by journalists at the time, indicates that the Y-30 was still in the study phase of opportunities and was waiting for the specifications of its future customer, Chinese Army.
Y-30 (Data 2014)
Cruising speed > 600 km / h
Cruise Ceiling 9,000 to 10,000 m
Ceiling > 10,000 m
Distance
(Full Capacity) > 3,000 km
Autonomy > 12 FH
Take-off distance <1 200 m
Landing distance <1 100 m
Maximum Capacity > 20 tonnes
Passenger capacity > 110 men
But the launch of the Y-30 program today, with a budget of 9.2 billion yuan (~ 1.2 billion euros), suggests that the military has now clarified its needs with SAC (Shaanxi Aircraft Corporation ), A subsidiary of AVIC specializing in the design of transport aircraft and responsible for the development of the aircraft.
The Y-30 will thus complement the 30 to 35 ton capacity segment left by the Y-20, which can load more than 60 tonnes of cargo and go further but economically inefficient for less greedy and more Frequent, and also by the Y-9 which can carry only 20 tons at most.
It will also replace, in the long term, the aging fleet of Y-8 and its many variants, as well as the Y-9, the newest of the family, fully modernized though, but inherits the same conceptual deficiency in the size of the hold , Which is no longer suited to the new generation of much larger and larger military equipment today.
The bunker of the Y-9 transport aircraft, not high enough and wide.
The 4-meter-wide bunker on the ground of Y-20
The size of the bunker is one of the reasons why China has finally decided to launch its own heavy-lift aircraft program, the Y-20, to replace the IL-76®, where some heavy Chinese equipment, Too large, can not enter the bunker of the latter while they are theoretically capable of transporting them in terms of capacity.
This can be seen in the comparison of the size and volume of the major military transport aircraft today. For example, a 60-ton ZTZ-99A battle tank will not enter an IL-76® due to its width exceeding that of the bunker, and the same is true for some new amphibious armor for the Y-9.
Model Length of bunker
(excluding ramp) Bunker width Bunker height Floor area
C-17 20.78 m 5.48 m 4.00 m 113.87 m²
Y20F-100 27.00 m
4.00 m 4.00 m 108.00 m²
Y20 20.00 m 4.00 m 4.00 m 80.00 m²
IL-76MD 20.00 m 3.15 m 3.25m 63.00 m²
A400M 17.70 m 4.00 m 3.85 m 70.80 m²
Y-9 16.20 m 3.20 m 2.35 m 51.84 m²
C-160 13.51 m 3.13 m 3.00 m 42.29 m²
C-130J 12.19 3.13 m 2.73 m 38.15 m²
It remains to be seen at the level of the engine - for a transport aircraft with an MTOW of at least 80 tons (estimated at about 30 tons of load), it would take 4 turboprop engines of 7 000 ehp at least. Now the current WJ-6C used by the Y-9 can only generate a power of 5,100 ehp, so a new engine should be developed, which seems to be the case to .
To be continued.
Henri K.
design phase of its new military transport aircraft Y-30 (?). The information was revealed in early March by , where the plane will be built.
The new medium-sized military transport aircraft made its first public appearance two years ago, in the form of a model, at the Zhuhai 2014 Air Show. It is marked "New medium-sized transport aircraft" on the With a small inscription "Y-30" on the vertical tailplane. This may mean that the Y-30 reference may not yet have been approved by the Chinese military but remains an internal reference of the manufacturer.
The Y-30 model presented at the Zhuhai 2014 Aeronautics Show
Front view of Y-30
The entry "New medium-haul aircraft"
The reference "Y-30" on the tailplane of the model
If the model is representative of the final aircraft, its aerodynamic configuration is quite similar to other four-turboprop military transport aircraft, such as the American C-130J and the EuropeanA400M, for example.
The Y-30 has a high wing design that reduces the height between the cargo floor and the ground to facilitate loading and unloading, and also avoids the projection of rubble against engines during take-off and landing. Landing of the craft on unprepared ground.
The T-stabilizer improves the efficiency of the control surfaces by avoiding the turbulence generated by the wing and makes the design of the large bunker doors at the rear easier.
There is also a change in the width and the height of the section with respect to the Y-8 and Y-9 whose design derives from the Antonov An-12 . Indeed, the Y-30, like the Y-20 heavy transport aircraft, now favors a wider and higher bunker to be able to bring in equipment that has become increasingly bulky these days.
For the time being we have not yet had any formal communication by the Chinese aircraft manufacturer on the targeted performance of the aircraft, and the figures published in 2014 have voluntarily remained rather vague, which is not surprising - Of AVIC, questioned by journalists at the time, indicates that the Y-30 was still in the study phase of opportunities and was waiting for the specifications of its future customer, Chinese Army.
Y-30 (Data 2014)
Cruising speed > 600 km / h
Cruise Ceiling 9,000 to 10,000 m
Ceiling > 10,000 m
Distance
(Full Capacity) > 3,000 km
Autonomy > 12 FH
Take-off distance <1 200 m
Landing distance <1 100 m
Maximum Capacity > 20 tonnes
Passenger capacity > 110 men
But the launch of the Y-30 program today, with a budget of 9.2 billion yuan (~ 1.2 billion euros), suggests that the military has now clarified its needs with SAC (Shaanxi Aircraft Corporation ), A subsidiary of AVIC specializing in the design of transport aircraft and responsible for the development of the aircraft.
The Y-30 will thus complement the 30 to 35 ton capacity segment left by the Y-20, which can load more than 60 tonnes of cargo and go further but economically inefficient for less greedy and more Frequent, and also by the Y-9 which can carry only 20 tons at most.
It will also replace, in the long term, the aging fleet of Y-8 and its many variants, as well as the Y-9, the newest of the family, fully modernized though, but inherits the same conceptual deficiency in the size of the hold , Which is no longer suited to the new generation of much larger and larger military equipment today.
The bunker of the Y-9 transport aircraft, not high enough and wide.
The 4-meter-wide bunker on the ground of Y-20
The size of the bunker is one of the reasons why China has finally decided to launch its own heavy-lift aircraft program, the Y-20, to replace the IL-76®, where some heavy Chinese equipment, Too large, can not enter the bunker of the latter while they are theoretically capable of transporting them in terms of capacity.
This can be seen in the comparison of the size and volume of the major military transport aircraft today. For example, a 60-ton ZTZ-99A battle tank will not enter an IL-76® due to its width exceeding that of the bunker, and the same is true for some new amphibious armor for the Y-9.
Model Length of bunker
(excluding ramp) Bunker width Bunker height Floor area
C-17 20.78 m 5.48 m 4.00 m 113.87 m²
Y20F-100 27.00 m
4.00 m 4.00 m 108.00 m²
Y20 20.00 m 4.00 m 4.00 m 80.00 m²
IL-76MD 20.00 m 3.15 m 3.25m 63.00 m²
A400M 17.70 m 4.00 m 3.85 m 70.80 m²
Y-9 16.20 m 3.20 m 2.35 m 51.84 m²
C-160 13.51 m 3.13 m 3.00 m 42.29 m²
C-130J 12.19 3.13 m 2.73 m 38.15 m²
It remains to be seen at the level of the engine - for a transport aircraft with an MTOW of at least 80 tons (estimated at about 30 tons of load), it would take 4 turboprop engines of 7 000 ehp at least. Now the current WJ-6C used by the Y-9 can only generate a power of 5,100 ehp, so a new engine should be developed, which seems to be the case to .
To be continued.
Henri K.
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