China's transport, tanker & heavy lift aircraft - esp. Y-20/YY-20

superdog

superdog

Junior Member
Bltizo said:
I really hope your are not serious, because every time you make a comment about anything related to Chinese engines in any thread, you inevitably bring up WS-10 as if it is some sort of failure.

Then everyone responds to you saying that WS-10 is in mass service among the many SAC produced flankers and that is evidence of quite a substantive amount of success, and then things just end up getting snarky when you seem to refuse to see that as evidence of anything and still maintain that WS-10 is some sort of failure and everyone else becomes frustrated and then we end up with two or three pages of off topic posts, possibly with a few political remarks thrown about as well. (before the discussion burns its own oxygen away or until a mod intervenes)


It's happened so many times now it isn't even funny.

For the sake of this thread and not causing it to drift off topic especially now in Zhuhai airshow season when everyone is interested on keeping up to date with new pictures, I will ask if you could give it a rest in this thread?
Because I'm tired of it and I think most others are tired of these sorts of discussions too popping up unwanted in threads about a given topic, and if you really want to exhibit your skepticism towards WS-10 and general Chinese engine efforts you can create a dedicated thread for it to keep it from diverting other threads and triggering everyone to bombard your off-hand snarky comments with pages and pages of replies. So I'm trying to pre-empt this thread from going off the rails, which it likely would without an intervention.
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He's so preoccupied with his perceived incompetence of Chinese engine development and Chinese SOEs, any signs remotely suggesting engine related issues would be interpreted as some kind of catastrophic doomsday for Chinese engines. I agree there's no longer any point in engaging with that, maybe just agree with him Chinese engine is game over and China will forever rely on Russia or whatever, just so things can move on.
 
Blitzo

Blitzo

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superdog said:
That seems to be an elongated version, so that's what they planned when more powerful engines are in place.
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that model does seem to show the aircraft with engines that are not D-30s, and do resemble what WS-20 appears to look like based on the pics we've seen of it on the Il-76 testbed.

I imagine exporting Y-20 would be very contingent on having a domestic engine aka WS-20 available as well, as exporting D-30s with Y-20 would not be very competitive and I imagine there's probably a cause made with Russia as well to not export Y-20s with them or Russia could just withold engines.


So the fact that they're definitely planning to offer an export Y-20 likely with WS-20s is a sign that they're probably confident in the progress of the engine so far.
 
K

kroko

Senior Member
Bltizo said:
I imagine exporting Y-20 would be very contingent on having a domestic engine aka WS-20 available as well, as exporting D-30s with Y-20 would not be very competitive and I imagine there's probably a cause made with Russia as well to not export Y-20s with them or Russia could just withold engines.


So the fact that they're definitely planning to offer an export Y-20 likely with WS-20s is a sign that they're probably confident in the progress of the engine so far.
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Why would a D-30 equiped Y-20 not be competitive? are they really that expensive? and why would russia not allow china to export planes equiped with their engines? those engines were bought from russia. Yes, i think that russia would prefer that countries buy IL-76, but its a 45 year old design and at this point i dont think that they have expectations that any nation will buy them. So IMO they have little to gain and a lot to lose (financially and politically) by not allowing china to export those engines or even witholding them
 
P

Preux

Junior Member
Compared to that, I am rather more curious how the WS-18 is doing. Mass order of D-30KP2 doesn't have much bearing on the status of the WS-20, but it DOES have some bearing on the WS-18, which is supposed to be the simple, no-frills D-30KP2 copy and have been undergoing testing for a few years now.
 
Deino

Deino

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Preux said:
Compared to that, I am rather more curious how the WS-18 is doing. Mass order of D-30KP2 doesn't have much bearing on the status of the WS-20, but it DOES have some bearing on the WS-18, which is supposed to be the simple, no-frills D-30KP2 copy and have been undergoing testing for a few years now.
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Indeed ... but maybe it simply means that even if the WS-20 is not ready NOW, the WS-18 is no longer related since the future is simply the WS-20.
Maybe China was able to negotiate a good contract for these new engines - esp. since the older Il-76/-78 and the new H-6K can't use the WS-20 - so that the WS-18 was simply abandoned?

Deino
 
Deino

Deino

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taxiya said:
I read "Y20-F10?", most likely F100. I wonder what does 100 mean. I never figured out in Y-8's case about -?00. In C919 case, the ?00 means ? number of seats, equal to capacity.
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No, that's quite a common designation similar to the one used by the Y-8F-series ...

Y-8F-100, -200, -400 and finally -600 which became the Y-9.
 
W

weig2000

Captain
Deino said:
Indeed ... but maybe it simply means that even if the WS-20 is not ready NOW, the WS-18 is no longer related since the future is simply the WS-20.
Maybe China was able to negotiate a good contract for these new engines - esp. since the older Il-76/-78 and the new H-6K can't use the WS-20 - so that the WS-18 was simply abandoned?

Deino
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WS-18 is more of an insurance product, a fallback position in case China would not be able to get D-30KP2 for whatever reasons, which would be terrible given that H-6K and Y-20 all depend on D-30KP2. Now that there is no issue getting D-30KP2 in the time and quantity PLAAF needs, an if WS-20 is largely on schedule, I don't see WS-18 is needed anymore.
 
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