China's strategy in Afghanistan.

DarkStar

Junior Member
Registered Member
While the US is the biggest loser during the current Afghan withdrawal crisis, another big player, India, is also quietly nursing its wounds. India has become visibly isolated among its neighbors and the larger upcoming Eurasia geopolitical setup. It appears that India has had so much bad luck and significantly weakened ever since it allied with the US with a clear anti-China goal. Or is it just bad luck?

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
Indians decided to make an enemy out of China not because of any geostrategic reason but because of pride; indians figured in their greater chain of being that Chinese being asians would be a suitable enemy to fight to cement their status as a great power as opposed to their anglo colonisers who indians believe to be superior in all ways, and besides, it flatters indian egos to compare themselves to China.
 

2handedswordsman

Junior Member
Registered Member
Ok, so you're just trolling. Got it.
I got into the conversation saying "sorry for..." No chest thumping or country bashing. So, you can make your assumptions for my motives. "My" country was 400 years under the Ottoman empire. But..."my" country before Ottoman occupation was a Christian Empire and known oppressor, and nowdays is a member of NATO that send troops to other countries to impose...what the hell they want to impose. Lets say rule of profit. So, I personally feel compatriot with anyone oppressed at any place of the world and not with an other Greek who has any delusions about the past or believe in any kind of superiority. There are as many parts of my nation's history to be proud of, as many to be ashamed of, so i choose to be neutral and focus at the present. The term Greek to me is about geography and linguistics. Fun fact a large part of the modern Greek vocabulary is Turkish rooted words and i love it, as i see common culture elements. History and culture are global relics after all.
 

ZeEa5KPul

Colonel
Registered Member
I got into the conversation saying "sorry for..." No chest thumping or country bashing. So, you can make your assumptions for my motives. "My" country was 400 years under the Ottoman empire. But..."my" country before Ottoman occupation was a Christian Empire and known oppressor, and nowdays is a member of NATO that send troops to other countries to impose...what the hell they want to impose. Lets say rule of profit. So, I personally feel compatriot with anyone oppressed at any place of the world and not with an other Greek who has any delusions about the past or believe in any kind of superiority. There are as many parts of my nation's history to be proud of, as many to be ashamed of, so i choose to be neutral and focus at the present. The term Greek to me is about geography and linguistics. Fun fact a large part of the modern Greek vocabulary is Turkish rooted words and i love it, as i see common culture elements. History and culture are global relics after all.
Your views about your national identity and your country's history are something you should discuss elsewhere. They have nothing to do with the topic and don't belong in this thread or this forum, quite frankly.
 

EtherealSmoke

New Member
Registered Member
Sorry for the interruption but i see some methodological mistakes that have to be pointed out. You talk about ancient China as something united that reflects to the modern PRC almost identical, which is absolutely wrong. Even nowdays "Xi calls for national rejuventation" which i think this is like the Stalin's diplomatic nationalist "motherland's" calling for WW2 (which motherland, the Soviet? The Rus? The Pan-slavic? The Atheist? The Christian? The Muslim? The Buddhist? The Tribal?). National rejuventation is a call to form a new national conscioussness, above and beyond the present ones. To make my point more clear, i will bring examples comparable to China qualitative and quantitive. USSR after decades of propagating and impying the union, the union broke up, several slavic nations, speaking the same or at least similar language, having common past etc became enemies, several wars between these nations occured and 30 years after the USSR's break up there are many tension hotspots in the region. The quantitive example is Europe. Both Latin and Slavic alphabet have their roots in Greek. Greek culture and philosophy set the foundations for the coming cultures etc. If we advocate that Europe is somewhat "Grecified" we can present a situation where Franks attacking the Byzantines, or Venetians is something internal, something that have to do about the damn Greeks. Which is not! Keep in mind that Min speaking territories and Jin speaking territories are as far apart (or more) as France to Italy or Turkey.

When China was weak, the nomads invade and build their own dynasties. Gradually the offspring of the nomads became farmers and sinicized. Again this is not something that China actively sought, but rather voluntarily taken by the invaders.

And which China was weak? The Han? The Tang? The Qing?The Mandarin Speaking? the Jin speaking?

The same question could be put like which Greeks were weak? The Macedonians, The Romans, The Byzantines? The Greek speaking, the Latin speaking etc. IF this was not something that China actively sought, why China built the biggest ever fortification on the planet, the Great Wall?

There is something foul to this kind of narration. This narration gives the courage to the average Greek nationalist to claim that he is the direct child of Plato and has the glorious Greek DNA. While he is just the mixture of generations of wars and cultures that passed through the region he was born. This narration makes the average Jai Hind to claim the glorious past, hoping to erase his unfortunate present. I believe that you see what i struggle to tell, no offence :)
For an European perspective, I think a great analogy for China is Rome. China is just Eastern Rome, except it's been reunified in a generally continuous manner since the Han Dynasty. Your point of this Chinese yearning for civilizational rejuvation isn't unique to China either. Europeans throughout time, even to the modern day, look to reclaim the glories of Rome - e.g. Charlemagne, the Holy Roman Emperors, Hitler's Third Reich, even modern day America with its Pax Americana.

Time-wise, the comparison maps out well too. Han China was a contemporary civilization of the Roman Empire, so I like to look at Han Chinese identity as similar to the idea of a Roman, or perhaps in a more modern sense, European identity. You pointed out very astutely that China historically is extremely diverse with dozens of languages and tribes holding dominion over China. I think this further supports my comparison. Just as different European ethnicities and language speakers conquered and looked to continue the legacy of Rome, so did the different groups that now make up China.

You do make some good points. What is really a country, or civilization? Over time, isn't it all a jumble of conquered and conquerors in a never-ending cycle all mixed together? You say it's just a narration and story, which I agree with, but at the end of the day, I think everything is really just a narrative and story if you think about it.
 

Bellum_Romanum

Brigadier
Registered Member
LOL judging from the ad hominem from Solarz and the bullshits about invention of China that you both threw to me, seems that i scratched the right chord. I am not trying to dissolve the national identity of anyone. I'm just a poor Greek that just above i dissolved my national ID to the pieces that is formed of and found that is nothing to be afraid of . Nationalism on the other hand is something to be afraid of. And yes, during Roman and Byzantine times, large parts of Europe and more, were enforced to a single entity. Could anyone kindly inform me, the poor European, when China was a single entity that was in par with the PRC and for how long?
Lol dude, you're grasping at straws and you're desperate in trying to make China as analogous to European non existent entity. You guys and gals were never a civilizational state so I don't know why you're going to insist and suggest that China of today is somehow a unique polity than what existed prior other than it's new political system.
 

solarz

Brigadier
I got into the conversation saying "sorry for..." No chest thumping or country bashing. So, you can make your assumptions for my motives. "My" country was 400 years under the Ottoman empire. But..."my" country before Ottoman occupation was a Christian Empire and known oppressor, and nowdays is a member of NATO that send troops to other countries to impose...what the hell they want to impose. Lets say rule of profit. So, I personally feel compatriot with anyone oppressed at any place of the world and not with an other Greek who has any delusions about the past or believe in any kind of superiority. There are as many parts of my nation's history to be proud of, as many to be ashamed of, so i choose to be neutral and focus at the present. The term Greek to me is about geography and linguistics. Fun fact a large part of the modern Greek vocabulary is Turkish rooted words and i love it, as i see common culture elements. History and culture are global relics after all.

Your views about your identity and history bear no relevance to the history of China.
 

Bellum_Romanum

Brigadier
Registered Member
I got into the conversation saying "sorry for..." No chest thumping or country bashing. So, you can make your assumptions for my motives. "My" country was 400 years under the Ottoman empire. But..."my" country before Ottoman occupation was a Christian Empire and known oppressor, and nowdays is a member of NATO that send troops to other countries to impose...what the hell they want to impose. Lets say rule of profit. So, I personally feel compatriot with anyone oppressed at any place of the world and not with an other Greek who has any delusions about the past or believe in any kind of superiority. There are as many parts of my nation's history to be proud of, as many to be ashamed of, so i choose to be neutral and focus at the present. The term Greek to me is about geography and linguistics. Fun fact a large part of the modern Greek vocabulary is Turkish rooted words and i love it, as i see common culture elements. History and culture are global relics after all.
I understand that your question was well meaning and that you're concept and understanding of nation-state is no longer bound to the traditional concept since I guess in your mind and perhaps that of @EtherealSmoke have move into the "4th millennium" or something. Your questions and thesis reminded me of the video I watched from "Politics and Prose" where they had Gen.Wesley Clark (ret.) as a guest to talk about his then latest book "Don't Wait for the Next War: An American Strategy." The question and answer portion a gentleman asked the retired General about his views on the nation state or how to move beyond it. I'll embed the video and you can see the question begins at 51:14 of the video.

And since this thread is about China's strategy on Afghanistan, the General also discuss the Afghanistan quandary that provided a far more nuance understanding of the region compared to his contemporaries in the military. The Afghanistan question starts from 47:30 of the video.

 

EtherealSmoke

New Member
Registered Member
I understand that your question was well meaning and that you're concept and understanding of nation-state is no longer bound to the traditional concept since I guess in your mind and perhaps that of @EtherealSmoke have move into the "4th millennium" or something. Your questions and thesis reminded me of the video I watched from "Politics and Prose" where they had Gen.Wesley Clark (ret.) as a guest to talk about his then latest book "Don't Wait for the Next War: An American Strategy." The question and answer portion a gentleman asked the retired General about his views on the nation state or how to move beyond it. I'll embed the video and you can see the question begins at 51:14 of the video.

And since this thread is about China's strategy on Afghanistan, the General also discuss the Afghanistan quandary that provided a far more nuance understanding of the region compared to his contemporaries in the military. The Afghanistan question starts from 47:30 of the video.

I'm not arguing what Clark labels 4th millennium thinking. I'm saying China is a multi-ethnic civilization/nation/culture. Interestingly enough, that's the narrative that Xi Jinping and the CPC is pushing, most recently a few days ago at the ethnic affairs conference this past weekend.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
 

Amanullah

Just Hatched
Registered Member
Indians decided to make an enemy out of China not because of any geostrategic reason but because of pride; indians figured in their greater chain of being that Chinese being asians would be a suitable enemy to fight to cement their status as a great power as opposed to their anglo colonisers who indians believe to be superior in all ways, and besides, it flatters indian egos to compare themselves to China.

Indians compare themselves to China, and genuinely think the 2 countries are comparable.
 
Top