China's Space Program Thread II

[gelgoog]

Can't CASC come up with some better approaches than this before reusable rockets are ready?! Especially replace those toxic fuel ASAP!
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It is not just China. Russia and India still launch with hypergolics.
In the case of Russia and China there are already in service rockets to replace the hypergolics. It is a matter of time until existing rocket stocks are used up.

Wow….local governments are more involved and bullish on Chinas space industry than private investors and venture capitalists it seems. It’s good to see Private Chinese space companies have good support (financial and infrastructural ) from the government.

If I was in the Chinese central government I would put a ban on the local governments investing in super heavy rockets. Otherwise someone might be dumb enough to do it.
The waste of money would make the race for supertall skyscrapers look cheap in comparison.

same with Russia, Europe and Japans space companies . They can’t compete at all with SpaceX. if anything China space industry is the only one who is still in the game and stands a chance to catch up with SpaceX in future if their private startups projects goes well, (which is not guaranteed) and they are able to really find that true sauce solution to be able to mass produce rockets like spacex has been able to do.

China and Russia are banned from launching satellites with US components. The truth is SpaceX launches are not cheaper than Russian or Chinese ones. Try comparing the price of a Soyuz launch with a Falcon 9 launch.

 

[gpt]

I don’t think we should be comparing Chinese private (or even state) space companies with Spacex. Spacex unconventional sucess has been an exception not the norm. The thing is spaceX has been so spectacularly successful that they make it look easy and make other competitors looks slow and even lazy.

And there's the practical side of things which is that it takes about a decade to put together a launch vehicle (just look at Vulcan and NG dev). SpaceX achieved its first booster landing in 2015 so let's assume China started taking it seriously right around that date. 2015->2025. It's on schedule.

 

[Asug]

This process is ongoing. Perhaps not as quickly, but it is steady.
(Graph shows the percentage of "old" rockets used relative to the total number of launches.)

Seriously, this is one area CASC has been a let down. I think in 2025 going to 2026 they should be retiring this old obsolete hypotonic rockets which were used at a time China was still a backward poor country. China has developed and advanced enough to still be using this same outdated rockets which keeps falling u controlled in sometimes inhabited area and most of all with their high toxicity , this is unacceptable in 2025 to be honest . I don’t understand why they haven’t transitioned to less toxic cryogenic rockets which they have already tested and put into operation . It might take some time and delays in launches to make the change but it’s worth it, since this continued use of old hyperbolic rockets is not sustainable or good for the environment/country . They need to be replaced ASAP. Unfortunately, I don’t see anything so far to show it will be the case anytime soon. I guess it’s just easy and more viable to carry on with this than make such drastic changes which I understand requires time, capital, human resources etc.

 

[bsdnf]

It is not just China. Russia and India still launch with hypergolics.
In the case of Russia and China there are already in service rockets to replace the hypergolics. It is a matter of time until existing rocket stocks are used up.


If I was in the Chinese central government I would put a ban on the local governments investing in super heavy rockets. Otherwise someone might be dumb enough to do it.
The waste of money would make the race for supertall skyscrapers look cheap in comparison.


China and Russia are banned from launching satellites with US components. The truth is SpaceX launches are not cheaper than Russian or Chinese ones. Try comparing the price of a Soyuz launch with a Falcon 9 launch.

Yes, even with Falcon 9's reusability, the launch cost of the CZ-2/3 remains lower or comparable.

It's so mature that it's difficult to abandon it when high-frequency launch missions are urgently needed, and it makes the development of subsequent models more challenging, they must achieve better economics than the CZ-2 while matching its performance.