China's Space Program Thread II

[taxiya]

YF209, the open cycle methane lox engine

Where do you get that idea? The first post regarding this site was #1,310 which clearly said

A new engine testing center has broken ground in Laiyuan county in Hebei province. The center will be operated by the 101st Institute of the Sixth Academy of CASC. Once finished, it will house comprehensive testing facilities for cryogenic liquid rocket engines up to 500-tons of thrust. First to come online later this year is a testbed for liquid hydrogen and liquid oxygen (Lox/LH2) cryogenic engines.

This test site was not completed as of March 2024, the test in question is the first at this site. YF-209 engine has been fully tested more than a year ago at another test site.

Another way to distinguish the two are the nozzles, YF-90 is a 2nd stage engine with a much larger nozzle while YF-209 is a 1st stage engine with a smaller nozzle that you can see in its full engine test.

 

[taxiya]

If LM10 is going to be human-rated to carry men to the moon, wouldn't also be used to ferry crew to the space station? i.e. to replace Shenzhou?

The post you just replied literally said CZ-10 is meant for crew to the station.

 

[by78]

Zhongke/CAS Space has completed wind tunnel tests of its Lijian-2 design. The results are in line with numerical simulations.

Development of Lijian-2 continues apace. Zhongke/CAS Space has successfully conducted a hot test run of the 85-ton LOX/Kerosene engine intended for Lijian-2's 1st stage.

 

[tiancai8888]

Where do you get that idea? The first post regarding this site was #1,310 which clearly said


This test site was not completed as of March 2024, the test in question is the first at this site. YF-209 engine has been fully tested more than a year ago at another test site.

Another way to distinguish the two are the nozzles, YF-90 is a 2nd stage engine with a much larger nozzle while YF-209 is a 1st stage engine with a smaller nozzle that you can see in its full engine test.

“该试验台“一专多能”，除满足液氢液氧火箭发动机研制试验需要外，还可满足液氧甲烷等多型推进剂发动机单机以及运载火箭动力系统试验需求。”
It could also support Methane/Lox engines. via Sixth academy's official wechat account

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And look at the blue plume of the tested engine VS YF77‘s plume
The engine could be the vac version of YF209

 

[by78]

A milestone: construction of launchpad no. 2 of the Hainan Commercial Spaceport is officially complete.

A glimpse of the launch control center at the Hainan Commercial Spaceport.

 

[taxiya]

“该试验台“一专多能”，除满足液氢液氧火箭发动机研制试验需要外，还可满足液氧甲烷等多型推进剂发动机单机以及运载火箭动力系统试验需求。”
It could also support Methane/Lox engines. via Sixth academy's official wechat account

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The wechat accout's report only said the test facility can be used for metholox engine, but did not say what type of engine in the first test.

And look at the blue plume of the tested engine VS YF77‘s plume
The engine could be the vac version of YF209
View attachment 131291View attachment 131292

All LH2/LOX engine's exist plum is blue and turns yellow further down stream.
See the blue plum of RS-25 in the first picture than the yellow plum further down stream in the 2nd picture.

While methane engine exhaust shows similar transition of colors. See BE-4 test

So the color of plum doesn't mean anything.

The existence of a possible vacum version of YF-209 is only a speculation now even though it is very likely. But it is irrelevant to the question of the specific engine type tested.

 

[tiancai8888]

All LH2/LOX engine's exist plum is blue and turns yellow further down stream.
See the blue plum of RS-25 in the first picture than the yellow plum further down stream in the 2nd picture.

See the difference of the plume between the nozzle and first mach ring?
LH2/LOX is much more clean.

Also if you make size comparison of the YF90(prototype) VS the tested engine.
I think you can conclude the tested engine is much smaller (both pics have human for scale)

 

[taxiya]

View attachment 131300

See the difference of the plume between the nozzle and first mach ring?
LH2/LOX is much more clean.

Those photos might be taken at different moments. The flame changes color from the moment of ignition to being stablized. In other words LH2/LOX flame aren't always "clean".

I find this youtube video of RS-25 test, you can see it takes some 10 seconds to go from purpule color to transparent.

RS-25

Also if you make size comparison of the YF90(prototype) VS the tested engine.
I think you can conclude the tested engine is much smaller (both pics have human for scale)
View attachment 131301View attachment 131302View attachment 131303

Perspective (optical illusion) plays a big role here. To make a comparison you need to be sure that:
1. the two photos must be taken with the cameras of same focal length. Wide angle camera makes the closer object looks larger as in the tested engine photo.
2. the people as reference must be standing at the same focal planes. Person standing in front of the engine will look larger than person standing behind.

The photo that you refered to as "tested engine" is new here, will you share the original source of it? Is there photo not blurred (the power-head of the engine). We have seen clear pictures of power-heads of YF-90 and YF-209 and they are vastly different. It would be a hard evidence to support identification instead of us speculating.

To be honest, I thought of YF-90 is due to early reports from CASC, not really direct evidence of the tested engine being YF-90. Your suggestion of YF-209 vacum version is because of the test rig "could be for Methlox". All are speculations. Unless there is hard evidence, it is becoming pointless to continue discussion.

 

[Taiban]

While the US remains the pre-eminent space power, China has set out its space ambitions and has been hitting its targets consistently to achieve its goal of being the leading global space power by 2045. But besides China and the US, there is a third actor whose power is increasing – New Space (the increasing commercialisation of the domain).

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[by78]

The Chang'e-6 sample return capsule is expected to land at the Siziwang Banner landing site in Inner Mongolia between 13:41 and 14:11 on June 25 (Beijing time).