China's Space Program Thread II

[Gentyri]

It's not like China doesn't know how to build non hypergolic rockets. It just refuses to use them very much or make the transition away for some reason. Yes, it definitely should do that, and it has some learning to do from SpaceX about iteration speed.

The YF-100 has about 61% more (vacuum) thrust than the RD-120 version that China acquired in the 1990s and 47% more thrust than the most powerful version of the RD-120 developed in the early 2000s. I am generally more skeptical about Chinese capabilities than the vast majority of posters here, but to claim that it's a "clone" of the RD-120 is a truly bizarre claim and makes no sense at all.

The Soviets acquired massive amounts of technology from the Nazis and the Rosenbergs, and Clement Attlee sold them the engine for the MiG-15 wholesale, (thats not even to mention the huge amount of Western technology transfer to the Soviet Union in the 1920s and 30s

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) so waxing on about how they were heroic cavemen who figured it all out from nothing is completely wrong.

I stand corrected regarding the RD-120. I will say that based on what we know about their engine weights, the TWR is still lackluster compared to its competitors. My biggest gripe is about out-of-the-box thinking. I wish to see China be known for breakthroughs in the future, and the current strategy by the space SOEs just doesn’t cut it with its stodgy decision making process.

 

[by78]

Another year-end launch, this time a Long March 2C successfully inserted an internet test satellite into space. This marked the 505th flight of the Long March series. This launch was also the 67th launch of 2023, 13 of which took place in December alone.

 

[by78]

Construction of the launchpad No. 1 of the Hainan Commercial Spaceport

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.

The hold-down clamps used to hold rockets upright on the launch platform.

 

[tiancai8888]

It's worse then that. China's use of hypergolic rockets is actively increasing and it's use of cryogenic rockets is decreasing. I'm not kidding. The long march 8 didn't launch a single time this year, the long march 6 launched a single time in 2023 compared to 2 launches in 2022, the long march 5 launched 1 time compared to the 2 launches in 2023 and the long march 7 launched the same number of times as in 2022. 2023 saw less launches of cryogenic rockets by the PRC then in 2022, the launch sector is regressing. Only the private sector has stepped up with their first launches of their cryogenic rockets. I'm not kidding when I say that only the private sector is the only hope left for cyrogenic rockets in China, I wonder if anybody realised that the number of the cryogenic long march rocket launches actually decreased in 2023 compared to 2022. And people wonder why I'm so angry about China not modernising her rocket fleet, it's pretty clear that even in 2023, the reverse is happening.

2023 is abnormal for the Chinese Space national team. Based on the plan they made at early 2023. They missed a dozen of CZ-2Cs, each of CZ-5B,CZ-7A,CZ-8 & CZ-6C.
They have removed several heads of the space agencies recently as a result, that's may be one of the reasons for the regressing.
At least the Wenchang commercical pad is on sechdule. We could see more CZ-8s and XLV22s in 2024.

 

[Taiban]

Construction of the launchpad No. 1 of the Hainan Commercial Spaceport

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.

China Space Super Power Dream-
Key basis - Commercialisation of Space based services-
The commercial launch pad fully operational is appreciated to ensure nearly 28 commercial launches per year

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[tphuang]

It's worse then that. China's use of hypergolic rockets is actively increasing and it's use of cryogenic rockets is decreasing. I'm not kidding. The long march 8 didn't launch a single time this year, the long march 6 launched a single time in 2023 compared to 2 launches in 2022, the long march 5 launched 1 time compared to the 2 launches in 2023 and the long march 7 launched the same number of times as in 2022. 2023 saw less launches of cryogenic rockets by the PRC then in 2022, the launch sector is regressing. Only the private sector has stepped up with their first launches of their cryogenic rockets. I'm not kidding when I say that only the private sector is the only hope left for cyrogenic rockets in China, I wonder if anybody realised that the number of the cryogenic long march rocket launches actually decreased in 2023 compared to 2022. And people wonder why I'm so angry about China not modernising her rocket fleet, it's pretty clear that even in 2023, the reverse is happening.

If you look at the numbers, it paints a bleak picture. Like half the current launchers are hypergolics while a 1/3rd of the launches are this tiny little small lift solid fuel rockets that can barely get a ton into LEO and the remainder are cryogenic rockets. At least the hypergolics give good performance of a few tons to LEO, compared then the dozen solid fuel rocket variants that can only put a few hundred kilos to orbit. If I had to theorise, I would say that China was thinking of replacing their hypergolic fleet with solid fueled rockets, hence why you see the LM11, Kuaizhou rockets, Zhongke-1 and Jielong 3 all popping up in the last few years and launching in large numbers.

That's why launch numbers are useless, China's launch numbers are being propped up by all this small lift solid fuelled rocket launches that can barely lift anything into orbit. A single falcon heavy launch can probably lift more mass then every single solid rocket that China has launched this year.

I don’t mind if you challenge people on this thread, but your recent posts have been a mix of off topic nonsense and just whingness that’s threatening to derail the thread. I strongly suggest you take a couple of days off this thread

 

[taxiya]

2023 is abnormal for the Chinese Space national team. Based on the plan they made at early 2023. They missed a dozen of CZ-2Cs, each of CZ-5B,CZ-7A,CZ-8 & CZ-6C.

Where did you get the missing list? I checked the following official announcement from begining of 2023.

MOD:

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Central Goverment:

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The Blue book of 2022 that listed major activities in 2023:

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Nothing in your post was mentioned except CZ-6C. The specially strange thing in your post is CZ-5B which is only meant to launch something of 25t to LEO. What kind of payload in this class is missing in 2023? Don't tell me it is the telescope, nobody promised anything of it.

According to the plan for 2023 (see above) there is to be more than 60 launches. The result is near 70 launches now. Where did you find the dozen of missing CZ-2Cs?

They have removed several heads of the space agencies recently as a result, that's may be one of the reasons for the regressing.

Did the rocket take bribe? Or the egineers or technicians removed? Try to keep politics out of this thread if you can not find a direct relationship.

 

[Arij Javaid]

I have 2 questions??

Is china the only country to use methane powered rockets?? How effective is it???

2nd question. China has G60 and Guo Wang satellite constellation projects with goal of 12000 and 13000 satellites to rival space x. Does china have the satellite productivity to achieve it faster??

 

[zbb]

Is china the only country to use methane powered rockets?? How effective is it???

China has the only methane powered rocket with a successful orbital launch. Several American companies (including SpaceX and Blue Origin) are also working on methane rockets but have not had successful orbital launches yet.

There appears to be wide consensus in the technical community that methane is the preferred fuel for the next generation of rockets due to favorable tradeoffs between factors such as fuel efficiency, ease of handling, clean combustion (important for reusability), etc.

 

[escobar]

According to the plan for 2023 (see above) there is to be more than 60 launches. The result is near 70 launches now. Where did you find the dozen of missing CZ-2Cs?

I think CASC plan don't include CAS/CASIC/ Private launch. So they plan for 60 launch but have launched 48