China's Space Program Thread II

[Maikeru]

The big deal with Zhuque 2 is it's the first rocket powered by methane to reach orbit. It all comes down to being more "environmental friendly" and ease of production. What the actual savings in costs are I don't know. I would guess methane is cheaper. Other companies using kerosene is likely they don't have the expertise and just use what they can afford.

Some advantages to methane:

1. Simpler And Cheaper To Produce
2. Little To No Coking And Other Forms Of Residue Buildup
3. Environmentally Friendly
4. Higher Specific Impulse Than RP-1 (Kerosene)
5. Can Be Produced On Other Celestial Bodies
6. Smaller Fuel Tanks Required Compared To Hydrogen
7. No Additional Compounds Needed To Keep Fuel Tanks Pressurized
8. Allows Rocket Engines To Run At Higher Pressures

AFAIK, methane is better than kerosene:

1. Methane engines can produce more specific impulse than kerosene. This means more delta-v for the mass of fuel and engine.
2. Methane takes up much less volume than other fuels like hydrogen, so the tanks can be smaller and lighter. It can be chilled before launch, causing it to shrink even further.
3. Methane is much cleaner burning than kerosene, eliminating problems with carbon deposits causing dangerous hot spots and blockages and greatly reducing the need for overhaul before reuse.
4. Methane can be made anywhere in space that power and common raw materials are available—including the surface of Mars.
5. Methane is plentiful and cheap in the form of natural gas (at least on Earth).
6. The boiling point of oxygen and methane are close enough you can easily prevent one freezing the other with a little insulation. That’s not the case with hydrogen (which will freeze oxygen) or kerosene (which will be frozen by it). These problems can be addressed with other fuels, but at the cost of extra weight.

Thanks for that very informative response! I guess a lot of the companies pursuing kerosene approaches will fold if Landspace keep up their progress.

 

[H2O]

Thanks for that very informative response! I guess a lot of the companies pursuing kerosene approaches will fold if Landspace keep up their progress.

Not necessarily so. Other companies can just purchase the methane rocket engines like how NASA used to purchase Russian rocket engines. I'm not sure if methane rocket engines will replace all other types of engines but that will depend on more successful rocket launches from this company.

 

[gadgetcool5]

Space X's Starship also uses methane, but since that has not yet launched, LandSpace gets in the history books as the first to send an object onto orbit with a methane rocket. A little David pips Goliath scenario.

 

[siegecrossbow]

The big deal with Zhuque 2 is it's the first rocket powered by methane to reach orbit. It all comes down to being more "environmental friendly" and ease of production. What the actual savings in costs are I don't know. I would guess methane is cheaper. Other companies using kerosene is likely they don't have the expertise and just use what they can afford.

Some advantages to methane:

1. Simpler And Cheaper To Produce
2. Little To No Coking And Other Forms Of Residue Buildup
3. Environmentally Friendly
4. Higher Specific Impulse Than RP-1 (Kerosene)
5. Can Be Produced On Other Celestial Bodies
6. Smaller Fuel Tanks Required Compared To Hydrogen
7. No Additional Compounds Needed To Keep Fuel Tanks Pressurized
8. Allows Rocket Engines To Run At Higher Pressures

AFAIK, methane is better than kerosene:

1. Methane engines can produce more specific impulse than kerosene. This means more delta-v for the mass of fuel and engine.
2. Methane takes up much less volume than other fuels like hydrogen, so the tanks can be smaller and lighter. It can be chilled before launch, causing it to shrink even further.
3. Methane is much cleaner burning than kerosene, eliminating problems with carbon deposits causing dangerous hot spots and blockages and greatly reducing the need for overhaul before reuse.
4. Methane can be made anywhere in space that power and common raw materials are available—including the surface of Mars.
5. Methane is plentiful and cheap in the form of natural gas (at least on Earth).
6. The boiling point of oxygen and methane are close enough you can easily prevent one freezing the other with a little insulation. That’s not the case with hydrogen (which will freeze oxygen) or kerosene (which will be frozen by it). These problems can be addressed with other fuels, but at the cost of extra weight.

Gordon Chang: actually methane is a worse green house gas than CO2, which is why cow farts are so deadly to the ecosystem. SeeSeePee is poisoning the atmosphere.

 

[paleski]

Was there any actual payload (satellite) launched on Zhuque 2 ?
Or this was only a test flight without satellites ?

 

[gelgoog]

Methane as a fuel has characteristics in between Kerosene and Hydrogen. A liquid rocket using kerosene will have smaller fuel tanks, and the fuel does not need to be stored at cryogenic temperatures. A rocket with methane has better fuel efficiency (Isp) than a kerosene powered one, but worse density and dry weight because of the larger fuel tanks due to the fuel being lower density.

The main advantage of methane is supposed to be less coking i.e. fouling of the engine which is important in reusable rockets. But this LandSpace rocket is not reusable.

You might as well neglect any possible price advantage in the fuel itself since that is mostly irrelevant in this case.

No satellites were launched with Zhuque-2 since this was a test launch.

 

[Temstar]

Was there any actual payload (satellite) launched on Zhuque 2 ?
Or this was only a test flight without satellites ?

Just mass simulator I think.


There's a surprising amount of wailing and gnashing of teeth today over Zhuque-2's success and getting the first methane rocket title. I honestly thought SpaceX fan would just brush it off and calling it non-resuable toy rocket but no they're very upset. Scott Manley is calling it a Sputnik Moment.

Probably not helped by this happening on the same day:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

 

[azn_cyniq]

Just mass simulator I think.

View attachment 115781
There's a surprising amount of wailing and gnashing of teeth today over Zhuque-2's success and getting the first methane rocket title. I honestly thought SpaceX fan would just brush it off and calling it non-resuable toy rocket but no they're very upset. Scott Manley is calling it a Sputnik Moment.

Probably not helped by this happening on the same day:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Just mass simulator I think.

View attachment 115781
There's a surprising amount of wailing and gnashing of teeth today over Zhuque-2's success and getting the first methane rocket title. I honestly thought SpaceX fan would just brush it off and calling it non-resuable toy rocket but no they're very upset. Scott Manley is calling it a Sputnik Moment.

Probably not helped by this happening on the same day:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Now the Chinese can claim that the Americans stole their technology if the Americans successfully launch a methane-powered rocket!

Just kidding, the Chinese aren't petty like the Americans

 

[davidau]

Now the Chinese can claim that the Americans stole their technology if the Americans successfully launch a methane-powered rocket!

Just kidding, the Chinese aren't petty like the Americans

Unfortunately US can't stand being second! Now they have to swallow the bitter pill.

 

[azn_cyniq]

Unfortunately US can't stand being second! Now they have to swallow the bitter pill.

They'll have to get used to it. They can no longer rely on former Nazis to do their hard work for them