China's Space Program News Thread
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Are they gonna go the "put a man on the moon before the decade is out" routine as well?
That was always in the plan, the phase 1 around 2025 2-3 on the moon surface. CZ-5DY is the name used in that paper from 2010.
The question around "whether there is a flag planting act" was always centred on when this CZ-5DY is ready, not delayed to 2030.
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Cool. How recent is the document?
I have always believed that they have an internal target to do a manned moon landing before the often publicly talked 2028 ~ 2030 time frame. The disclosure of CZ-5DY was one piece of evidence. But this is the first time that I see what appears to be a semi-official document stating the target date so specifically.
The paper is published in 2010. It is stated in post 9744.
It is titled 关于中国载人登月工程若干问题的思考 (On Issues of China Manned Lunar Exploration) and authored by Long Lehao.
2030 is the target of phase II (moon habitat for long duration, months) which demands CZ-9 for construction.
It is official in the technology planning sense. It is not official in the political decision sense.
Since discovering the CZ-5DY (known as 921 rocket a before), I always felt like it would make a very good candidate for a reusable VTVL first stage rocket.
There was a 2018 article a few years back describing the rocket that became CZ-5DY, how its engine arrangement could allow for that very purpose, but we haven't heard much about it since then.
Can you share that article? I am very interested.
About CZ-5DY, probably you already know, but anyway here is how it looked like in Long Lehao's 2010 paper.
5m core, 6 3.35m booster. 4 YF100 in core, 2 in each booster. Total 16 YF-100 in 1st stage. 4 YF-77 in 2nd stage.
Yeah, this one from xinhua in 2018, which describes the rocket's parameters and the VTVL potential in the same sentence.
Key part being
"据王小军介绍，新一代载人火箭起飞重量约2000吨，可以将25吨有效载荷直接送入奔月轨道，或者将70吨有效载荷送入近地轨道，还可以与多种模块组合使用，形成近地轨道40吨至70吨，地球同步轨道10吨至32吨的系列化型谱，并且采用多台发动机并联布局可以实现垂直起降重复使用。火箭研制工作已在近期完成了新型泵后摆高压补燃发动机、固体可调推力姿控发动机等的点火试车。"
Yeah, I do remember the CZ-5DY designation was used in the past for that 6 booster rocket at the time.
I meant the triple 5m core rocket with 7 YF-100Ks per core, that began to circulate around 2018, dubbed as 921 rocket and "CZ-FH," before it then inherited the CZ-5DY designation.
It is certain that the designer had that in mind when they designed it. The core stage has 7 (odd number) engines, with one in the center. Considering YF-100's current throttle range is down to 65%. VTVL capability is just a matter of priority.
This is probably also why the design from 8th Academy failed. It has 4 engines in a 3.8m core. This is also why I said in an earlier post that I don't want and I don't believe this new rocket from 8th is going to go beyond the brochure.
Yes the configuration of the cores certainly seem like they were designed with VTVL in mind.
Though I think they could go a bit further with CZ-5DY's potential for reusability -- specifically, I think if all three cores were "identical" in terms of their fuel tanks and their external shaping that would allow all of the cores to be used individually as standalone rockets (like the Falcon 9 to Falcon Heavy relationship). In fact I'm not sure if the asymmetrical tip of the CZ-5DY's two booster cores would allow for a reliable VTVL to be carried out for the booster cores.
Personally I'm of the opinion that in the medium to long term, prioritization and standardization on reusable capable CZ-5DY (in triple and single booster form) and reusable capable CZ-9 (with the sixteen YF135s) should be the optimal family for state rocket types (outside of rapid response and solid fuel rockets).
Having too many different rocket types is a waste of money, and consolidating the product line to 3-4 main reusable rockets capable of deploying larger single payloads per launch (or multiple smaller payloads per launch) is the way forwards.
I would even say that from a technological point of view, it is more important to achieve reliable large payload orbital launches at fast pace (i.e.: reusability) rather than pursuing lunar+interplanetary ambitions, if they were forced to choose between them.
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