China's Space Program News Thread

[Blitzo]

Re: Chinese Satellites

I presume a carrier's additional destroyer, cruiser escorts, AOR will identify it from lone or groups of tankers transiting well known shipping routes.

Depending on the type and resolution of the satellite they could differentiate between the long oval of a tanker and the sharp polygon profile of a carrier.

 

[NikeX]

Re: Chinese Satellites

I presume a carrier's additional destroyer, cruiser escorts, AOR will identify it from lone or groups of tankers transiting well known shipping routes.

Depending on the type and resolution of the satellite they could differentiate between the long oval of a tanker and the sharp polygon profile of a carrier.

Are you taking into account the carrier battlegroup assuming a different formation and using ECM to degrade the resolution of the satellite radars?

 

[NikeX]

Re: Chinese Satellites

I presume a carrier's additional destroyer, cruiser escorts, AOR will identify it from lone or groups of tankers transiting well known shipping routes.

Depending on the type and resolution of the satellite they could differentiate between the long oval of a tanker and the sharp polygon profile of a carrier.

Are you taking into account the carrier battlegroup assuming a different formation and using ECM to degrade the resolution of the satellite radars?

 

[Blitzo]

Re: Chinese Satellites

Are you taking into account the carrier battlegroup assuming a different formation and using ECM to degrade the resolution of the satellite radars?

Then it becomes a question of how effective both ECM and the satellite are?

I'm no expert or even half an expert on the subject of spy satellites, but couldn't IR cameras work to seek out targets instead of SAR, or even in conjunction? I don't know the weaknesses and strengths of either method but IR would be passive and should be harder to jam(?). And how exactly would ECM degrade SAR quality exactly? I'm not challenging the claim, like I said this area isn't my forte.

 

[Blitzo]

Re: Chinese Satellites

--


Also I'd think a CVBG would keep a defensive formation if venturing into a known danger zone, espicially if we're talking about a time in high tension or conflict, rather than assume a position which would make them more vulnerable but less conspicuously obvious as a CVBG.
Who knows. Clearly in real life ships in CVBGs can be up to kilometers apart (as opposed to barely a few hundred meters away from each other in PR photos) and retain a defensive umbrella -- but at what distance between each other will the ships' be harder to detect from orbit and harder to protect each other?

(I'd post this as an edit but the updated posting method isn't letting me save. also when making a new post it says you have tried to make two posts too quickly etc, leading to double posts)

 

[Hendrik_2000]

Re: Chinese Satellites

Still not clear how Chinese ocean surveillance satellites plan on distinguishing between a carrier and a similar sized super tanker with a large flat deck

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It is combination of SAR,AIS,Maritime surveillance aircraft, OVH radar,Infra red imaging satellite, Optoelectronic satellite

Mpleio just posted Chinese AIS that will locate any civilian or military warship Off course US Navy can always disguise any civilian ship as warship using bogus transponder. But still they have civilian ship database to work with and using it as cross reference for suspicious warship or Aircraft Carrier. that way they can narrow down the search. Xinhui has a blog about it a year or so ago. Interesting

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[Hendrik_2000]

Re: Chinese Satellites

This satellite image is from civilian satellite with 2m resolution .imagine what would a .5 m resolution would revealed

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[NikeX]

Re: Chinese Satellites

Mpleio just posted Chinese AIS that will locate any civilian or military warship Off course US Navy can always disguise any civilian ship as warship using bogus transponder. But still they have civilian ship database to work with and using it as cross reference for suspicious warship or Aircraft Carrier. that way they can narrow down the search. Xinhui has a blog about it a year or so ago. Interesting

If AIS is one of the methods to be used then it is easy for the carrier or some ship in the formation to broadcast a spurious AIS signal to spoof the ocean surveillance satellite. It was done before when the IKE eluded the efforts of the Russians to pin her down in the Barent Sea.

"...In fact, in the August-September 1981 exercise, an armada of 83 US, British, Canadian, and Norwegian ships led by the carrier CVN Eisenhower managed to sail the Greenland-Iceland-United Kingdom (GIUK) Gap undetected, using carefully planned and rehearsed tactics.

Concealment and Deception
A combination of obvious if inconvenient passive measures like operating under electronic emissions control conditions and active measures like radar-jamming and transmission of false radar signals was used to hide the allied fleet. They even eluded a Soviet active-radar satellite launched into a low to search for it...."

 

[NikeX]

Re: Chinese Satellites

Mpleio just posted Chinese AIS that will locate any civilian or military warship Off course US Navy can always disguise any civilian ship as warship using bogus transponder. But still they have civilian ship database to work with and using it as cross reference for suspicious warship or Aircraft Carrier. that way they can narrow down the search. Xinhui has a blog about it a year or so ago. Interesting

If AIS is one of the methods to be used then it is easy for the carrier or some ship in the formation to broadcast a spurious AIS signal to spoof the ocean surveillance satellite. It was done before when the IKE eluded the efforts of the Russians to pin her down in the Barent Sea.

"...In fact, in the August-September 1981 exercise, an armada of 83 US, British, Canadian, and Norwegian ships led by the carrier CVN Eisenhower managed to sail the Greenland-Iceland-United Kingdom (GIUK) Gap undetected, using carefully planned and rehearsed tactics.

Concealment and Deception
A combination of obvious if inconvenient passive measures like operating under electronic emissions control conditions and active measures like radar-jamming and transmission of false radar signals was used to hide the allied fleet. They even eluded a Soviet active-radar satellite launched into a low to search for it...."

 

[NikeX]

Re: Chinese Satellites

Notice how dense these shipping lanes are in the Pacific. Any ship, even one the size of a carrier can easily hide among normal shipping traffic

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