China's Space Program News Thread

[AndrewS]

Sorry but no. Too short and at the wrong position. The position is the engine, not the load baring fuslage.

921 does NOT have re-usability in its plan even if it has the potential to be made re-usable in a future increment. But not for now. In that mode, 921 would not be used for moon mission, limit of physical law.

Besides, any heavy rocket aimed for Moon and beyond would loose too much dv/payload if made re-usable even if only the first stage. With re-usability, the payload to moon would be so tinny that re-usability becomes pointless. Don't be tricked by the big mouth of Elon Musk. He know what he is doing but only say something else to grab investment, after all he is a businessman first and foremost.

Total payload is the wrong metric.

A better metric is the cost to send a kilogram into orbit, which is where reusable rockets win.

If you're sending missions to the Moon or Mars, you can afford to launch multiple missions and then refuel in orbit.

 

[AndrewS]

Thanks @Quickie !
I see. A triple 5m core rocket with LM5 core module diameter. It also uses existing YF-100k kerolox engines.
That makes a lot more sense than LM9. Never heard of this rocket before.

They will have to redesign the stages and fuel tanks. But at least they should be able to reuse much of the tooling, and much of the test infrastructure (I am unsure if they test stages standalone of just do some hold down testing on the launch pad). The transport infrastructure is also much more likely to be able to be repurposable. Plus this design is more amenable for reuse in the future like the article says.
This seems like a win to me. It should also have better economics than Falcon Heavy. It has less engines per module and each engine has more chamber pressure and thrust. Each module's first stage has similar power to the Zenit's. Good design.

I would also expect that a rocket with 7 engines would have enough redundancy to survive the loss of 1 engine, and still complete its mission.

But the key is reusability for the atmospheric stages, which will drive down the cost per launch substantially.

 

[supercat]

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China sends 13 satellites into orbit with single rocket

View attachment 65279


A Long March-6 carrier rocket carrying 13 satellites is launched from Taiyuan Satellite Launch Center in north China's Shanxi Province, Nov. 6, 2020. China successfully sent 13 satellites into orbit from the Taiyuan Satellite Launch Center in north China's Shanxi Province on Friday. The satellites, including 10 commercial remote sensing satellites developed by Argentine company Satellogic, blasted off atop a Long March-6 carrier rocket at 11:19 a.m. (Beijing Time). (Photo by Zheng Taotao/Xinhua)
TAIYUAN, Nov. 6 (Xinhua) -- China successfully sent 13 satellites into orbit from the Taiyuan Satellite Launch Center in north China's Shanxi Province on Friday.
The satellites, including 10 commercial remote sensing satellites developed by Argentine company Satellogic, blasted off atop a Long March-6 carrier rocket at 11:19 a.m. (Beijing Time).
Each weighing about 41 kg and with a design life of three years, the 10 satellites will be used to provide commercial remote sensing services with their multispectral and hyperspectral loads.
Also on board the rocket were three satellites developed by Chinese high-tech companies and research institutes, respectively for remote-sensing observation, science experiments and science popularization.
Friday's launch was the 351st by the Long March rocket series.

They include the world's first 6G test satellite, which is expected to be more than 100 times faster than 5G:

China Sends World’s First 6G Test Satellite Into Orbit

(Yicai Global) Nov. 6 -- China sent 13 satellites into orbit today, including the world’s very first sixth-generation communications test satellite.

The devices were put into space by a Long March-6 carrier rocket that blasted off from the Taiyuan Satellite Launch Center, China Central Television reported. Ten Argentina’s NewSat, Beihangxingsat-1, and Bayi 03 satellites were also on board, marking the first time that China's new-generation of carrier rocket has taken foreign satellites into space.

The 6G experimental satellite, named after the University of Electronic Science and Technology of China, was jointly developed by Chengdu Guoxing Aerospace Technology, UESTC, and Beijing MinoSpace Technology. It will be used to verify the performance of 6G technology in space as the 6G frequency band will expand from the 5G millimeter wave frequency to the terahertz frequency.

The satellite is the first technical test of terahertz communication’s application in space, said Xu Yangsheng, an academician at the Chinese Academy of Engineering.

The technology is expected to be over 100 times faster than 5G, enabling lossless transmission in space to achieve long-distance communications with a smaller power output. The technology allows terahertz to be widely used in satellite internet, said Lu Chuan, head of the UESTC’s Institute of Satellite Industry Technology.

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[Blitzo]

Sorry but no. Too short and at the wrong position. The position is the engine, not the load baring fuslage.

921 does NOT have re-usability in its plan even if it has the potential to be made re-usable in a future increment. But not for now. In that mode, 921 would not be used for moon mission, limit of physical law.

Besides, any heavy rocket aimed for Moon and beyond would loose too much dv/payload if made re-usable even if only the first stage. With re-usability, the payload to moon would be so tinny that re-usability becomes pointless. Don't be tricked by the big mouth of Elon Musk. He know what he is doing but only say something else to grab investment, after all he is a businessman first and foremost.

The 921 rocket clearly at present isn't intended for reusability, but there have been past statements that have suggested it is intended for it.

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新一代载人运载火箭载人飞船研制已取得阶段性成果
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2018年11月06日 16:52:31 来源： 新华社

新华社广州11月6日电（记者陈芳、胡喆）起飞重量约2000吨、可与重型运载火箭组合使用建立月球基地……记者从11月6日在珠海开幕的第12届中国国际航空航天博览会上了解到，我国已启动新一代载人运载火箭和载人飞船研制工作，目前已取得阶段性成果。

新一代载人运载火箭是根据我国载人航天工程发展规划，为发射我国新一代载人飞船而全新研制的高可靠、高安全的载人火箭。中国航天科技集团一院长征七号运载火箭总指挥王小军说，新一代载人运载火箭将按照载人飞行的最高安全标准进行设计，在近期可以用于载人月球探测工程中的环月、绕月等演示验证任务，快速推动我国运载火箭技术和进出空间能力的重大提升和跨越。未来还可以和长征九号运载火箭组合使用建立月球基地，实现月球可持续开发利用。

据王小军介绍，新一代载人火箭起飞重量约2000吨，可以将25吨有效载荷直接送入奔月轨道，或者将70吨有效载荷送入近地轨道，还可以与多种模块组合使用，形成近地轨道40吨至70吨，地球同步轨道10吨至32吨的系列化型谱，并且采用多台发动机并联布局可以实现垂直起降重复使用。火箭研制工作已在近期完成了新型泵后摆高压补燃发动机、固体可调推力姿控发动机等的点火试车。

据中国航天科技集团介绍，新一代载人飞船是面向我国载人航天未来发展需求而论证的新一代载人天地往返运输飞行器，飞船采用返回舱与服务舱两舱构型，全长约9米，最大发射重量23吨，在充分继承我国载人航天工程已有技术的基础上，在结构、推进、回收、能源、热控、电子、人机交互和可重复使用等方面采用了一系列先进技术，使飞船具备高可靠、高安全、低成本和宜居的特点。飞船采用模块化设计，可适应近地轨道飞行、载人月球探测和载人深空探测等多种任务。

I agree that reusability for a moon mission for the 921 rocket wouldn't make sense, but I see the importance of the potential reusability of the 921 rocket as being much more consequential for earth-orbit missions.
I think SpaceX has definitely proven that reusability can be practical, and the potential for even in-orbit missions is significant, simply because the cost lets you put much more payloads into orbit more frequently at equal or lower cost.

The economic and military applications of a heavy (Falcon Heavy and 921) or future super heavy (Starship or a future reusable CZ-9 class rocket) rocket that is mature, reusable, and with the infrastructure to support it, is massive.
I certainly don't agree with what Musk says on many things, but the idea of "regularizing" rocket launches I think is significant and potentially practical enough that it can't be ignored, and has the possibility to be realized well within our lifetimes (even just a decade or two depending on political will and funding).
Putting 100 tons into LEO on a reusable Starship sized rocket, if properly operationalized to enable even just three daily launches, means you could annually put the equivalent tonnage of a nuclear powered supercarrier into LEO.

The economic and especially the military potential and consequences of such a capability and the ramp up to such a capability are massive.

The 921 rocket, likely being able to put 69 tons (nice) into LEO, and able to put a slightly lower payload into LEO if made reusable, would be a low risk and respectable starting point for reusability, to give them breathing space before pursuing a true super heavy reusable rocket like a redesigned CZ-9.

 

[B.I.B.]

Thought it was a wok.

I was thinking that it was orderd by a village for a communal stir fry on Chinese new year 2021

 

[taxiya]

Total payload is the wrong metric.

A better metric is the cost to send a kilogram into orbit, which is where reusable rockets win.

If you're sending missions to the Moon or Mars, you can afford to launch multiple missions and then refuel in orbit.

fuel of upper stages themselves are payload of the lower stage, so payload is the right metric I am afraid. It is called "the curse of rocketry", "more payload needs more fuel which in turn needs even more fuel". In this vicious circle, you won't afford to refuel so many times for a meaningful load to the moon. There is no trick here, DV = fuel = mass regardless what makes that mass.

 

[taxiya]

The 921 rocket clearly at present isn't intended for reusability, but there have been past statements that have suggested it is intended for it.

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I agree that reusability for a moon mission for the 921 rocket wouldn't make sense, but I see the importance of the potential reusability of the 921 rocket as being much more consequential for earth-orbit missions.
I think SpaceX has definitely proven that reusability can be practical, and the potential for even in-orbit missions is significant, simply because the cost lets you put much more payloads into orbit more frequently at equal or lower cost.

The economic and military applications of a heavy (Falcon Heavy and 921) or future super heavy (Starship or a future reusable CZ-9 class rocket) rocket that is mature, reusable, and with the infrastructure to support it, is massive.
I certainly don't agree with what Musk says on many things, but the idea of "regularizing" rocket launches I think is significant and potentially practical enough that it can't be ignored, and has the possibility to be realized well within our lifetimes (even just a decade or two depending on political will and funding).
Putting 100 tons into LEO on a reusable Starship sized rocket, if properly operationalized to enable even just three daily launches, means you could annually put the equivalent tonnage of a nuclear powered supercarrier into LEO.

The economic and especially the military potential and consequences of such a capability and the ramp up to such a capability are massive.

The 921 rocket, likely being able to put 69 tons (nice) into LEO, and able to put a slightly lower payload into LEO if made reusable, would be a low risk and respectable starting point for reusability, to give them breathing space before pursuing a true super heavy reusable rocket like a redesigned CZ-9.

To make it clear, I did not refute re-usability in a proper application (earth orbit) based on today's technology (chemical rocket). I was trying to cool down the hype/fever of "re-usability is everything everywhere".

 

[taxiya]

I was thinking that it was orderd by a village for a communal stir fry on Chinese new year 2021

seriously though, have you seen a big wok in Chinese village home? It's about 1.2 to 1.5 meter cast iron. It is for everyday use.

 

[B.I.B.]

seriously though, have you seen a big wok in Chinese village home? It's about 1.2 to 1.5 meter cast iron. It is for everyday use.

Wow but those woks would not be big enough.My great great great great great great grandfather came to NZ in 1842 and is regarded as the first Chinese person in NZ. Currently there over 1700 living descendants so if we all journey back to his village for a celebratory dinner we would need bigger woks.

 

[Blitzo]

To make it clear, I did not refute re-usability in a proper application (earth orbit) based on today's technology (chemical rocket). I was trying to cool down the hype/fever of "re-usability is everything everywhere".

Yes, I understand that, but I also just wanted to clarify that reusable capability is certainly desirable for every class of rocket in the future, even if all of them may not be used 100% in the reusable fashion.