China's Space Program News Thread

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manqiangrexue

Brigadier
ISRO is still trying to re-establish communications with the GSAT, so it's a tad early to draw conclusions. Anyways, just because the media is putting a ridiculous spin on things doesn't mean that one should do the same with India's space mishaps (which happens to everybody).
Well, I didn't say it was lost or destroyed or anything did I? It's embarrassing enough that they lost communications with it just 2 days after launch.
 

texx1

Junior Member
I'm rather perplexed over the whole Tiangong 1 thing. Some commentators in the BBC refer to it as an embarrassing setback/failure for China's space ambitions.Howeaver as I understand, Tiangong 1 accomplished its original mission goals,so where's the embarrassing failure?

Those commentators are just giving what their viewers want so they can keep getting invites. Sticking to the facts and going against the set narratives usually translate into being blacklisted.
 

Shaolian

Junior Member
Registered Member
I might sound like a broken record here, but one of the headlines I've heard goes something like "...Chinese Space Junk Crashing Back To Earth..." or something like that. Yeah, "technically", maybe it is a space junk, but as in any language, words carry connotations.

Make no mistake, the Western world is using every last ounce of its ability, with no regard whatsoever for any morality, remorse or mercy to prevent the developing or under-developed world from ever developing past them. Propaganda like these, even 10-year-old's would instinctively know to be immoral.

Well, they'd say it's a democracy, so people are free to spew whatever they want. In that case, democracy, as practiced by the West is very irresponsible then. Governments, that regulate the law continue to allow, maybe even encourage this kind of behavior, making their native populations ever more xenophobic, and preventing what should be the better understanding of peoples around an ever shrinking world to progress.

And then these same peoples, having already been brain-washed, return the same kind of leaders into governments, and the vicious cycle continues.

The developing and under-developed world should NEVER EVER let down their guard against this tyranny, but also let this knowledge be etched into our psyche, so that we would NEVER USE back this same strategy towards its original propagators.
 

supercat

Major
It does not look like an April fools' joke.

Russia & China to merge satellite tracking systems into one global navigation giant

Moscow and Beijing will team up to create an integrated navigation system based on Russia’s Global Navigation Satellite System (GLONASS) and the Chinese BeiDou. The system will cover most of Eurasia.

The countries will reportedly negotiate the merger in May at the International Conference on Advanced Technologies in Manufacturing and Materials Engineering in the Chinese city of Harbin, Izvestia daily reports.

The initiative to merge the two separate systems is the result of a proposal made by the Chinese authorities to the Russian Federal Space Agency, Roscosmos. It is intended to create a joint global navigation satellite system, covering the countries of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization, which include China, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Russia, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, India and Pakistan.

The new system will allow the partners to share data on the positions of navigation satellite groups, improve working efficiency in a real-time environment, and to exchange corrections, where necessary. At the same time, Russian GLONASS may significantly broaden its user base.

“If the project is implemented, it will allow for an improvement in accuracy for both systems,” said a Roscosmos spokesperson, as quoted by the media.

If successful, the project will divide the entire world into two zones of influence by two united systems GLONASS-BeiDou and GPS-Galileo, operated by the US and the European Union, according to Andrey Ionin, a member of the Russian Academy of Cosmonautics.

Global Positioning System (GPS), the world’s oldest Global Navigation Satellite System, began operations in 1978 to provide location information and navigation to missile submarines and surface ships. The system was also used for hydrographic and geodetic surveying by the US army. The system was opened to civilian and commercial use in 1994. GPS currently operates 31 satellite constellations.

Russia’s GLONASS became operational in 1993. The navigation system has 27 satellites in orbit and all are operational. It is run by the Russian Aerospace Defense Forces and is currently the second alternative navigational system in operation.

Galileo is the European global navigation system, which is available for civilian and commercial use. It is a joint project by the European Space Agency and the European GNSS Agency. At present, there are 22 operational satellites out of a projected 30. Galileo started working in 2016 and is expected to reach full operational capability by 2020.

Chinese BeiDou was put into operation 2000 with limited coverage and navigation services offered mainly to users in China and neighboring regions. The system currently has a total of 22 operational satellites in orbit and the full constellation is projected to reach 35 satellites.

Japan and India are also developing their own regional navigation satellite systems. The Japanese Quasi-Zenith Satellite System (QZSS) is currently under construction. This is expected to become fully operational by the end of the current year. It will have seven satellites and four have already been sent into orbit.

The Indian Regional Navigation Satellite System (IRNSS) covers India and nearby regions, extending up to 1,500km. Its seven satellites are currently in orbit, but the first one has been out of operation after all rubidium atomic clocks on board failed in 2017.

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taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
It does not look like an April fools' joke.



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I think we should be careful to the word "merging". But then, the journalist may not know the details anyway.

There are ongoing work in somehow sharing or co-working of Glonass and Beidou, but there are also a newly signed agreement between Beidou and GPS. How deep are these collaborations are? We don't know. But from this article, it seems Glonass and Beidou are cozier.

The inter-operability works between Glonass and Beidou could be much deeper than Beidou and GPS considering the relationship of the three countries. But "merging" sounds like making Glonass and Beidou into one system. That is very unlikely even if they wanted to because:
  1. The working frequencies of the two are different.
  2. The coding schemes are different.
  3. Chips in user devices therefor are very different. User devices can have chips which work for both system, but that is just packing two separate ICs in one box.
What can be done is more on the ground stations or satellites. Ground stations and satellites of the two system can exchange calibration data, greatly increasing the accuracy of the two. I can imagine Beidou ground stations in Russian and other SCO countries and vis versa.

To summarize, it will be very close and deep interworking but not merging into one.

Details aside, it is indeed a collaborations not seen so far.

P.S. in the long term (decades and IF relations go better), I can imagine a real merge. That is the two system will share frequencies and orbital locations and using same coding schemes. However that means Russia and China is as close as UK/Canada to USA or even more. It also need to wait for the early Beidou and Glonass satellites to reach their service lives.
 
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taxiya

Brigadier
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After googling I found a very quick and harsh "debunk" by a Russian Hater
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, see his article on gpsworld
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This article is full of assertion without facts, such as "RT is propaganda by Russian government, so must be lies". There is only one hard "fact" from this article that can be verified. It is the time of the conference in Harbin where the negotiation is supposed to be conducted. The article claims that the conference was held and closed on January 2018 with nothing reported.
And the international conference mentioned has already run its course, in January of this year; in Harbin, granted. But done and gone, with no such negotiation reported.
However, I found
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which is the site. The conference is to be held from May 4 to 6, just like the RT article said.
Important Dates
Abstract Submission Deadline(presenter only) March 5, 2018
Full Paper Submission Deadline(for author) March 10, 2018
Notification of Acceptance March 30, 2018
Registration deadline April 15, 2018
Conference Dates May 4-6, 2018

So what is this Alan Cameron talking about? He attacked RT by making a lie himself? Or he just had a knee jerk reaction?

This is exactly the same as the "professionals'" talking about Tiangong-1 out of control with not fact, and worse with falsified "fact".

In no way I am saying that RT article is correct (at this moment). But it did not run anything that can be proven wrong (at this moment). It is the so-called professionals who are lying by calling others lying.

Something we must keep reminding ourselves all the time.
 
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