China's Space Program News Thread

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2=GT

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Future planned Chang'e missions:

CE-5 pictured

2018 - CE-4 far side lunar landing & L2 Lagrangian point data relay satellite
2023 - far side lunar sample return
2025 - Lunar south pole exploration
2027 - Lunar north pole resource development & key technology verification

CN-LunaExploration-2030.jpg
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Interesting. All liquid fuel engines as opposed to the SLS which has 2 giant solid fuel boosters.
There is a very very good reason why the SLS has SRB's
Is it because CNSA thinks solid boosters are less suited for manned mission as they cant be turned off after ignition, or due to insufficient solid booster technology?
and this is... not it.
The SLS as we know it today is based on a project based on a concept to reuse parts from the shuttle. The SRB's on the sides of the SLS are directly based on the SRB's used on the Shuttle. The Main engines of the SLS are 5 of the Space Shuttles RS25's The upper stage uses the same RL-10s as the Centaur on a Atlas V
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Expanding on my last post:
In some ways the SLS is really a Hybrid of the Delta IV and the Shuttle this is routed in its origin a concept called DIRECT which aimed to try and accelerate into service a Shuttle replacement by recycling those parts.
The Chinese by contrast are starting from the Long March series of liquid rockets. Basically building a big core two stage then bolting a lot of medium lifters around it.
This is a bit like the falcon heavy where you have three falcon 9 first stages mated together with the center one having its second stage. By doing so they use the additional thrust from the two extra falcons to bump the payload up a little higher or compensate for the additional weight then in microgravity the upper stage is free to fire placing the payloads beyond Just LEO.

The advantage, for CZ9 is that you can in theory save some budget by using a established product to boost the payload vs having to produce a specialized booster.
The advantage for the SRB is that it can be fueled and stored for a long term and as to starting and stopping since SRBs are used on the first stage that a non issue as basically the whom point is to burn a first stage to get the velocity to hit LEO. So starting and stopping is unnecessary in fact contrary to use.
 

Quickie

Colonel
Is it because CNSA thinks solid boosters are less suited for manned mission as they cant be turned off after ignition, or due to insufficient solid booster technology?
I agree with TerraN_Empire, the different approach may have more to do with the continuation of the type of technology that CNSA are most familiar with. As to the second suggestion, the Long March 11 is entirely solid fueled, so lack of solid fuel booster technology is not it.
 

Arcgem

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Maybe I'm just getting my hopes up a little too much, but considering the CZ-9 is still in the earlier stages of development compared to the CZ-7 and CZ-5 rockets, whose designs are essentially locked in by now, the engineers could be leaving room for a potential reuse solution in the future. Although so far there has been no official dialogue regarding reusable rocket development in China, it would not be unreasonable to speculate that there are people who are seriously discussing this idea behind closed doors.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Maybe I'm just getting my hopes up a little too much, but considering the CZ-9 is still in the earlier stages of development compared to the CZ-7 and CZ-5 rockets, whose designs are essentially locked in by now, the engineers could be leaving room for a potential reuse solution in the future. Although so far there has been no official dialogue regarding reusable rocket development in China, it would not be unreasonable to speculate that there are people who are seriously discussing this idea behind closed doors.
When it comes to Orbital Space flight, Reusable is hard and to date every reusable has been partially reusable. The Russians and Europeans once ran a think tank on Reusable, On paper It seems like a great Idea, However it's not Always perfect and their are a lot of issues to work out. The Think tank concluded it was more economical to just build disposables. The Problems being the cost of holding that extra fuel for the return trip, the inspection and re-certification of the rocket followed by repair and reconditioning.
Case in point is the shuttle Program. The Shuttle reused three main components, The Orbiter with it's 3 SME's and RCS system and heat resistant tiles, and the two SBR's.
the large Center ET or External Tank was dropped on orbit for a burn up it had no previsions for serious reuse. There were concepts of reuse, some wanted to use them to build a space station but the thin skinned aluminum hulled ET's were never intend to reenter the atmosphere and survive.

The Falcon 9 which is the closest to ready to reusable in the orbital range can only recover the first stage and the Dragon Capsule, the upper stage and dragon UN-pressurized module is lost. and to date it's only had two successful recoveries.
The Falcon heavy would be again fist stage recovery for three first stages. The second stage lost.

Currently NASA and Russia doesn't really care about reusable. I mean one of the subprograms of SLS is the RS25-F which aims to convert the RS25's from a reusable into into a disposable rocket engine.
ULA, wants to just have the engine cores drop from the first stage as those are the most expensive parts.Airbus want to build Adeline a concept where the first stage engines separate from the booster first stage, deploy wings and propellers and fly to a runway to land. There have been in the past similar concepts for externally mounted boosters along the same Idea as Adeline Where the booster would become a reverse shuttle deploying wings and gliding to a recovery zone Germany's Liquid Fly-back Booster, The Russian Baikal and the USAF Reusable booster system but every one was canceled.
The Indians seem interested, their AVATAR concept is a single stage to orbit which is the most reusable concept their is as by only having the main craft and not breaking of parts the whole thing comes back. but that will take more work. until then they are working on the RLV demonstrator which uses a expended booster first stage. Skylon is another SSTO concept currently under development The Japanese have the Kankoh-maru proposal. Now what comes of these is hard to say. SSTO's have a bad track record of actually getting built they are daunting Challenges. The only other Idea would be to rather then build a Rocket first stage use a Plane.
Vulcan Aerospace Stratolaunch would have a totally reusable first stage being a airplane built from 2 747-400s The down side is you still need a Rocket second stage and that even with the dual 747's its not as efficient for a really really big payload. I mean Stratolaunch has a concept for a manned payload based on the SNC Dream chaser but at sub-scale a 2-3 man crew vs the full Dream chaser with a 7 man crew.
Being frank Reusable would probably be easier on Mars or the moon then earth both having smaller gravity wells and less destructive atmospheres

 

escobar

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The thermo-capillary convection wave surface experiment is among the 19 experiments being conducted on China's SJ-10 satellite.The thermo-capillary convection wave surface experiment bears great importance, according to scientists.

"We will study the thermo-capillary convection wave surface, which bears important meanings and practical application value for expanding the fluid physics, promoting fluid management in space and quality crystal growth in space and on Earth," said Duan Li, director of the experiment.

The thermo-capillary convection is the mass transfer along an interface between two fluids due to surface tension gradient due to temperature dependence.
 

escobar

Brigadier
China has successfully conducted boiling experiment under the microgravity conditions on the retrievable satellite SJ-10 launched on April 6.The result could provide the scientific basis for developing new heat conduction technology for industrial applications.

Similar to the boiling experiment on earth, the experiment heats the liquid until it boils. Differently, scientists used a low-boiling point liquid with similar features as water instead of the latter to reduce power consumption in the satellite and to increase safety of the experiment equipment.Under the microgravity condition, the bubbles generated from heating would stick to the heating surface instead of leaving it as in normal conditions. Experts say the reason is the lack of buoyancy.

"The process of bubbles' development and their movement cycle would be extended. Simply put, we can carefully observe the characteristics of such bubble movement and the micro heat conduction around the bubbles in a fairly large spatial scale and a fairly long time scale so as to better reveal the basic mechanism of boiling heat conduction," said Zhao Jianfu, director of the boiling experiment.

Although it may look like a simple phenomenon, the expert says, the experiment will have a wide application in high technologies. "Let's say our Yutu moon lander we launched in our lunar exploration plan. It used boiling to conduct heat from one place to another in high efficiency to made full use of the heat energy. So boiling, although it is a common phenomenon, it can be applied intensively to industries. It has, therefore, drawn extensive attention in academic and engineering communities," Zhao said.

 
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