Travel time to Mars using a conventional rocket is some six months and I think that is too long, especially as you are not protected by the Van Allen belts. Using a solar sail or an ion rocket or something similar should reduce travel time to some three months which is already long enough. Plenty of time will be needed to develop the necessary technology so a manned launch to Mars is reasonable.
China's Space Program News Thread
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TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
A lot more then that,
the First Problem is political, The Space Treaty, And In Particular Planetary protection. If Mars has Life then "Make no Landing here" If not then, All systems are go!
next is the Orbits you have a short launch window, you have to catch just the right Orbit to get your crew to Mars, with a Travel time varies based on orbits and Intercept Course.
The Hohmann transfer orbit gives you 234 days roughly 7 months. with 452 days on mars but you can only launch at set periods. every 26 months.
Now You can cut that down with a Crocco Grand Tour to 113 days , But your space craft will be sent on a "Grand Tour" Redirecting to Venus 154 days before heading back to earth in 98 days and you have maybe a 10-30 day window to land and operate on Mars before the craft departs for Venus. really though this is the best option for a pure Flyby. and again set periods
Ballistic capture this is considered the cheapest option and offers more windows but not necessarily the shortest flight time. it offers more flexible launch times. options for resupply of a manned mission but flight time goes up to about 9 months.
This is all using conventional rocket power, you can go faster but you need more power and the ability to slow. Fast transfer orbits. That means a system using a plentiful fuel supply. can cut travel down to 4 months the problem is Fuel and that is where Ion drives and solar sails come in. Really I don't think Solar sales are the best option as they would need to be huge. the most realistic is a Nuclear powered Ion drive.
Personally I think all of the Above for a Manned mars program.
The "Grand Tour" being the opening act would be sending some observation craft and using the flyby to conduct some preliminary scouting of landing zones dropping unmanned rovers to prospect LZ's and test ship systems. then make a flyby of Venus and deploy probes of the upper atmosphere where the pressure and acidity is lower then the hellish surface
Hohmann would be used to send the preliminary supply mission ahead of the manned landing mission. sending unmanned rovers and excavators as well as solar array and fuel processors, a MAV and a HAB.
Fast Transfer for the manned landing expedition and occasional ballistic capture for remote resupply.
Now no matter the travel time you have the space threats of Radiation and micro gravity on a manned crew.
You can partially shield your crew to a degree you need plastics metals and water but all has to be brought into space. You can also partially negate the gravity issue with centrifugal force. However the weights cost and engineering are large challenges. not impossible but large.
You need a crewed habitat module, supply modules and a landing vehicle or Vehicles. These parts alone would be a small space station. Add in a propulsion module with a reactor. Nuclear reactors in space is not new or shocking. Despite Zubrin over the past 30 years we have made alot of steps forward in the arena of Nuclear propulsion.
Spinning it a issue you have to spin the craft in such a manner to generate the artificial gravity with outside effects that means it has to be big. If its a small spin the crew would suffer from issues of the Coriolis effect which would produce dizziness and flailing. two options here a wheel ship or is to rotate the craft along it's length. Cost wise the rotating along the length is probably the best bet. your crew would live at one end with all the dangerous stuff at the other. You can also use compression suits to partially simulate gravity on the bones and skeleton of the crew and exorcise including powered exoskeletons to add tension.
Okay you get that far now you have to make orbit and then land.
Parachutes as we know them are not a option. Mar's thinner atmosphere means that a manned lander has to have a parachute the size of the super dome. that's a lot of weight and It's doubt-able that it would even open. you need to increase the drag of your lander and control your landing. Your not going to drop on a parachute. you might have some airbags to help cushion. but your going to burn a engine. Probably more than one I would say 4 positioned around the edge of the craft angled out at maybe 15* out to use the exhaust to add more drag add some ballutes to serve as flaps and a heat shield.
Great your on Mars.... Now the problems on Mars.
Radiation is still a issue. windstorms are not a real issue the atmosphere is so thin that only the finest particulate is kicked up.
The Atmosphere, power and supplies and even manned rovers have to be waiting unless your only there for 10 days that means multiple unmanned missions.
I think maybe a manned mission to orbit Mars, but sent an unmanned lander/robot down to the Mars surface, and control it from the orbit (maybe make it synchronous to length of Mars self rotation). The lag time should be a lot less than from Mars to Earth to allow for meaningful work, and potentially less weight has to be sent down and retrieved.
In this context developing space station technologies may make sense. Shoot modules to Mars orbit and then assemble them there + stocking up. Autonomous docking tech would be useful. Then once everything is ready send the humans over.
In this context developing space station technologies may make sense. Shoot modules to Mars orbit and then assemble them there + stocking up. Autonomous docking tech would be useful. Then once everything is ready send the humans over.
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TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
why send humans latter why not just build your station in LEO then send it to mars? Your crew going to mars needs space and storage for food going there already.
That is true. You can even nudge it progressively closer to Mars with the astronauts inside. I was thinking of minimizing human travel time to and from earth to Mars orbit regions (that way maybe more portion of time spent near Mars vicinity, if we consider a max limit of time that humans should live under weightless outer-space conditions). Larger mass would cost more fuel to speed up and slow down and do it slower.
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
The Problem I see is as I pointed out your crew if they land or stay in orbit needs space and provisions for at least a year no matter what, and your crew is going to have a lot of problems if you trap them in a capsule for 6 months. Frankly I don't think you could even use a Capsule for over 2 months without failures and heath issues both physical and physiological. So assembling your station in LEO then transferring your crew over makes more sense.
I think that was the mission architecture the Russians were looking into.
I think that was the mission architecture the Russians were looking into.
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
That's actually what Bigelow has been pitching. Basically any craft beyond LEO is a Space station with engines strapped on.
Your crew return vehicle, an Airlock/Docking node, habitat module, a lab module, Stores, Then a Propulsion section consisting of fuel stores and engines.
the Airlock/Docking would be used to drop landers to the surface or in the case of a manned landing would have your Lander docked. It might also have some kind of maintenance craft, NASA was looking at a concept called Flexcraft similar to the EVA pods seen in 2001 A Space Odyssey this was to support maintenance and repair.
The Hab Module would have a ward/gallery, Space head including all hygiene needs,crew cabins simple living spaces including a birth and desk, a small gym/medical bay.
the Lab module would be outfitted with controls for your landers, hydro or aeroponics and a number of experiments to keep your people busy on the long trip.
then the stores this will include refrigeration and storage of spare parts and foodstuffs. this could be another docking port with smaller storage modules once exhausted they could be jettisoned.
Then you have the propulsion bus. depending on how you drive it it might need large fuel tanks or smaller ones. non conventional thrusters would cut down on the tanks.
Your crew return vehicle, an Airlock/Docking node, habitat module, a lab module, Stores, Then a Propulsion section consisting of fuel stores and engines.
the Airlock/Docking would be used to drop landers to the surface or in the case of a manned landing would have your Lander docked. It might also have some kind of maintenance craft, NASA was looking at a concept called Flexcraft similar to the EVA pods seen in 2001 A Space Odyssey this was to support maintenance and repair.
The Hab Module would have a ward/gallery, Space head including all hygiene needs,crew cabins simple living spaces including a birth and desk, a small gym/medical bay.
the Lab module would be outfitted with controls for your landers, hydro or aeroponics and a number of experiments to keep your people busy on the long trip.
then the stores this will include refrigeration and storage of spare parts and foodstuffs. this could be another docking port with smaller storage modules once exhausted they could be jettisoned.
Then you have the propulsion bus. depending on how you drive it it might need large fuel tanks or smaller ones. non conventional thrusters would cut down on the tanks.
Don't send a manned craft to Mars just to go sight seeing. When you have reconnoitred Mars well enough send several unmanned landers with among other things
A power station:
Use say a PU battery to to power the deployment of the power station which sports a Solar collector to collect heat and a radiator to provide a heat sink with a heat engine in between. Later the station can contain a molten salt heat battery to provide power at night. Process the local air to collect water.
A tunneling machine:
To dig accommodation space deep enough that at the atmospheric pressure used, say the same as that in Lhasa, no tension will appear in the walls. So that is some 16 metres deep.
Gizmag had a few days ago an item on plants growing in pretend Martian soil in Wageningen and it said the plants were to be grown in tunnels because it would not be possible to grow them on the surface because of cosmic rays and other dangers.
Send an unmanned space station to in orbit on Mars ( by Solar Sail? ) that will have a strong computer and strong communication with Earth and that also carries several descend machines. Only then send a reasonably sized crew, much more than two, with the fastest means available. Eventually the Martians must be able to manufacture anything they need.
I regularly receive propaganda from the Mars One project and a reject wholly their notion of doing everything on the surface.
A power station:
Use say a PU battery to to power the deployment of the power station which sports a Solar collector to collect heat and a radiator to provide a heat sink with a heat engine in between. Later the station can contain a molten salt heat battery to provide power at night. Process the local air to collect water.
A tunneling machine:
To dig accommodation space deep enough that at the atmospheric pressure used, say the same as that in Lhasa, no tension will appear in the walls. So that is some 16 metres deep.
Gizmag had a few days ago an item on plants growing in pretend Martian soil in Wageningen and it said the plants were to be grown in tunnels because it would not be possible to grow them on the surface because of cosmic rays and other dangers.
Send an unmanned space station to in orbit on Mars ( by Solar Sail? ) that will have a strong computer and strong communication with Earth and that also carries several descend machines. Only then send a reasonably sized crew, much more than two, with the fastest means available. Eventually the Martians must be able to manufacture anything they need.
I regularly receive propaganda from the Mars One project and a reject wholly their notion of doing everything on the surface.
AssassinsMace
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