China's Space Program News Thread

[Equation]

I read this article a while back that pointed out although China may be merely retracing the steps of other powers, -today- they are the only ones with remotely the capability of putting humans on the moon. Even though the US has done this, the know-how and infrastructure is not there anymore. And there's nothing in the pipeline for the immediate future.

But really, the first to pull off viable resource extraction from alien worlds (moon included) is the one who will own space in the future.

Well to be fair lets wait and see because NASA is working on its SLS system as of now.

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[Jeff Head]

Lighten up, it wasn't a finger flip or a trivialization. it was an intentionally contrarian joke.

An intentional contrarian joke that casts a negative light on this Chinese accomplishment...there's simply no way around that.

What might be considered contrarian in an American culture of the 2000-teens, and passed off as such, does not play in the same way to a Chinese audience. Many of them will take it as an intentionally veiled snub and insult at best, no matter how you couch it. The Sino-Defense forum has a majority of our members who either are mainland Chinese living there, or living overseas, or Chinese descendants.

That was my intended point.

Here, recognizing this and taking it into consideration when posting not only makes good sense, it also helps avoid unintentional misunderstandings and anger. That's all.

 

[chuck731]

Chang'e 3 seems to have landed in an area with unusually high potential for making major discoveries about the history and geology of the moon. All previous landers and sample return missions have only accessed parts of lunar surface between 3.6-4.0 billion years old (older than 99.999% of earth's surface). Chang'e 3 appears to have landed in a part of its target box where the lunar surface is only 1 billion years old ( younger than bottom of grand canyon). This area is one of the youngest, if not the youngest, area exposed on lunar surface.

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[Blitzo]

Personally I'm quite interested in the size of the Chang'e 3 lander. It's quite decent sized if you compare it with the Apollo landers, and I think buzz aldrin or someone wrote it could be scaled up for an eventual human mission.
I expect CE 5, the lunar sample return mission will build on CE 3 and 4 landers, and CE 5 itself may prove technologies useful for a human mission.

 

[Quickie]

When I read articles on this, it's always mentioned that China is decades behind. It is also mentioned that China does this for prestige value only. Isn't belittling this all about bragging? Who's the one in it for prestige value? Talk about a waste of money if all space exploration is about who did it first. It's also criticized that China is doing it for exploitation of extraterrestrial resources. I guess that means China isn't only about superficial prestige.

The scientific equipments on the Chang'e 3/Yutu are definitely more advanced than those in the the Moon rovers/probes of the 1970s. In that respects, I don't see how these state-of-the-art equipments are 40 years behind those 1970s equipment. Some of the equipments, like the ground penetrating radar on the Yutu, had not even been developed 40 years ago.

 

[blacklist]

anyone belittling yutu moon landing is belittling almost every nation because only 3 nation have done it so far.

The scientific equipments on the Chang'e 3/Yutu are definitely more advanced than those in the the Moon rovers/probes of the 1970s. In that respects, I don't see how these state-of-the-art equipments are 40 years behind those 1970s equipment. Some of the equipments, like the ground penetrating radar on the Yutu, had not even been developed 40 years ago.

 

[xiabonan]

An intentional contrarian joke that casts a negative light on this Chinese accomplishment...there's simply no way around that.

What might be considered contrarian in an American culture of the 2000-teens, and passed off as such, does not play in the same way to a Chinese audience. Many of them will take it as an intentionally veiled snub and insult at best, no matter how you couch it. The Sino-Defense forum has a majority of our members who either are mainland Chinese living there, or living overseas, or Chinese descendants.

That was my intended point.

Here, recognizing this and taking it into consideration when posting not only makes good sense, it also helps avoid unintentional misunderstandings and anger. That's all.

Jeff I really have to applaud and appreciate your sensitivity here. This I think is what it takes to build a better forum environment for all.

By the way as an overseas Chinese citizen, I don't really feel insulted or anything of that kind (though some will inevitable be). Haha, after all we are not a superpower, so there's no way to fall as a superpower.

 

[Scyth]

Some people belittle China's moon landing because the US and USSR did it a long time ago, so people are used to the idea that it's possible to put something on the moon. Therefore, when China sends "only" a rover to the moon (and not humans as with the US), it doesn't seem much extraordinary. Even if China sent people to the moon, critics would say "well the US did that decades ago, so welcome to 1969".

Part of the know-how that the US and USSR (Russia) had about lunar mission is gone or very outdated, which means they also need to work hard to ensure a succesful mission. It's not like NASA could put another rover on the moon blindfolded, just because they put a man on the moon decades ago. However, their recent rover missions to and on mars would certainly help and give it an edge compared to ESA and the Russians.

I hope the Chinese engineers, scientists and the leadership won't get caught too much by these critics and continue their slow, but careful, methodical and practical development. It's a great achievement worth celibrating!

 

[SampanViking]

Some people belittle China's moon landing because the US and USSR did it a long time ago, so people are used to the idea that it's possible to put something on the moon. Therefore, when China sends "only" a rover to the moon (and not humans as with the US), it doesn't seem much extraordinary. Even if China sent people to the moon, critics would say "well the US did that decades ago, so welcome to 1969".

Part of the know-how that the US and USSR (Russia) had about lunar mission is gone or very outdated, which means they also need to work hard to ensure a succesful mission. It's not like NASA could put another rover on the moon blindfolded, just because they put a man on the moon decades ago. However, their recent rover missions to and on mars would certainly help and give it an edge compared to ESA and the Russians.

I hope the Chinese engineers, scientists and the leadership won't get caught too much by these critics and continue their slow, but careful, methodical and practical development. It's a great achievement worth celibrating!

There is a general point here that capability and expertise is only maintained if it continues to be used.
I remember very well back in the 90's the difficulties that NASA had with the Pathfinder project as nearly all the technicians and engineers etc from the Viking Missions in the 70's (which I also remember very clearly) had retired and nobody else had ever done anything even close to similar.
It is a general point of course and as true for Space as it is for any form of technology or military capability (ie Naval Aviation).

The difference between something meaningful and just a media PR stunt, is whether or not the event is the start of an ongoing and developing programme in which these will be just core skills that will be honed and built upon on a regular basis.

If you let your capability lapse, then when you start again, you are effectively starting from scratch and you need to relearn the old lessons once again. So in that sense if a manned mission to the Moon or Mars race was to start again, those nations with previous achievements from decades ago, but subsequently discontinued, would have only a very limited advantage over those starting from zero.
On top of this of course, that nature and speed in the change in technology will largely by itself, ensure that any new programme, will be a entirely new programme, as techniques, systems and materials will be available today, that could only be dreamed of half a century ago.

 

[Jeff Head]

Some people belittle China's moon landing because the US and USSR did it a long time ago, so people are used to the idea that it's possible to put something on the moon. Therefore, when China sends "only" a rover to the moon (and not humans as with the US), it doesn't seem much extraordinary. Even if China sent people to the moon, critics would say "well the US did that decades ago, so welcome to 1969".

Part of the know-how that the US and USSR (Russia) had about lunar mission is gone or very outdated, which means they also need to work hard to ensure a succesful mission. It's not like NASA could put another rover on the moon blindfolded, just because they put a man on the moon decades ago. However, their recent rover missions to and on mars would certainly help and give it an edge compared to ESA and the Russians.

The very idea that the US did what they did in less than a decade (from JFKs establishment of it as a national goal) and with the technology that existed at the time, makes that achievement of first orbiting the moon with a manned Apollo capsule, then landing men and rovers on the surface multiple times, all the more amazing.

The new technology that the US is now planning is geared towards using the same type of methodology, coupled with new technology to do so again, on the moon, on an asteroid, and then on Mars.

I hope the Chinese engineers, scientists and the leadership won't get caught too much by these critics and continue their slow, but careful, methodical and practical development. It's a great achievement worth celibrating!

I do not think they will. What the Chinese did, they did on their own, and accomplished it very well. They have every right to be very proud and satisfied with the accomplishment and we should recognize it as such.

It will be interesting, after the rover missions, and sample collections and returns, where the PRC will go next.