China's SCS Strategy Thread

[jobjed]

LOL. You're reaching, Equation my friend, really reaching.

It's clear China is slicing more salami and wouldn't stop until she gets the whole enchilada. I'm sympathetic to China's historical LAND claims over South China Sea, Diaoyu Dao, and Japanese-occupied Okinawa, but no one owns the water.

One point. Ryukyu was an independent kingdom that was part of the Chinese tributary system but was never annexed nor conquered; China has as much claim to Ryukyu as she does over Korea and Vietnam.

 

[xiabonan]

China's neighbors are nervous of her intentions and how she'll use her power, so they look to the US for security.


That makes sense from China's perspective, but it clearly hasn't mollified her neighbors, so having strong US presence in Asia actually benefits everyone involved, including the Middle Kingdom.


Ah yes, Pax Sinica- the Chinese Peace; a piece of this and a piece of that. That's what everyone is concerned about!

Problem is the US most probably won't help them to such an extent that she goes all out to counter China in the SCS for some islands Americans have never heard of. I believe that it's not in the national interest of the US nor it is a huge concern to the American people, hence American politicians.

As a result, by dragging the US into this mess Vietnam and the Philippines would only intimidate China even more.

I just don't see why leaders of those countries do not get it.

Furthermore, let alone the US which is all the way over the other side of the Pacific Ocean, even Vietnam and Philippines' close neighbours have very different take on this issue. Some of the ASEAN countries see China as a helpful friend, some see China as a competitive partner, some, like Malaysia and Brunei, while actually drilling the oil, have been very quiet about it and does not do things like trying to drag the US into it, and maintains very good relations with China as well. China know the two countries are drilling oil there but basically have given silent consent.

 

[xiabonan]

I don't know that it would put the issue to rest, and my guess is it wouldn't. But, having the 9-dash line does indeed cause problems for some folks, so why not remove it and not add any more fuel to the fire? It's not like it change any facts on the ground, right?

Of course it changes things. It changes how Chinese people especially Chinese students perceive the SCS.

Future generations of Chinese will see the SCS as an integral part of China instead of some standalone mini-map stuffed at the corner of the main map.

It sends the signal to whoever looking at it that, to China, the sea is as important as any of our land.

 

[Blackstone]

Of course it changes things. It changes how Chinese people especially Chinese students perceive the SCS.

Future generations of Chinese will see the SCS as an integral part of China instead of some standalone mini-map stuffed at the corner of the main map.

It sends the signal to whoever looking at it that, to China, the sea is as important as any of our land.

China wants to dominate the SCS the same way US dominated and still dominates the Caribbean Sea and the Gulf of Mexico. That's plain for all to see. Philippines are Vietnam are just pawns in the great powers game.

 

[Geographer]

Then clarify island sovereignty the usual way. The 9-dash line on official Chinese national map does less to clarify sovereignty, and more to obfuscate it. Unless, of course, it's Chinese intention to nationalize everything inside the "cow tongue," include all of the waters. Put yourself in the shoes of China's SCS neighbors and tell me how you would see it. Keep in mind that 1) SCS territorial disputes are on-going and very heated, and 2) no other nation on God's green acres draw their maps like China, and neither did China till now.

What do you mean the "usual way"? While the meaning of the nine-dash-line may be ambiguous, at least it's a visual cue that China claims all the islands within. What do Vietnam and the Philippines do?

Vietnam says it claims the Hoang Sa (Paracel Islands) and Truong Sa (Spratly Islands). Using these words is more ambiguous than the nine-dashed-line because we don't know the boundaries to those island groups. This

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of the Spratly Islands shows what I mean. The Chinese, Filiipino, Malaysian, and Bruneian boundary lines are defined but Vietnam's isn't.

 

[Equation]

LOL. You're reaching, Equation my friend, really reaching.

It's clear China is slicing more salami and wouldn't stop until she gets the whole enchilada. I'm sympathetic to China's historical LAND claims over South China Sea, Diaoyu Dao, and Japanese-occupied Okinawa, but no one owns the water.

Why are you keep saying that China is trying to own the waters in SCS? It's the islands that it's reclaiming.

 

[joshuatree]

What do you mean the "usual way"? While the meaning of the nine-dash-line may be ambiguous, at least it's a visual cue that China claims all the islands within. What do Vietnam and the Philippines do?

Vietnam says it claims the Hoang Sa (Paracel Islands) and Truong Sa (Spratly Islands). Using these words is more ambiguous than the nine-dashed-line because we don't know the boundaries to those island groups. This

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of the Spratly Islands shows what I mean. The Chinese, Filiipino, Malaysian, and Bruneian boundary lines are defined but Vietnam's isn't.

Maybe it is because Vietnam's boundary claim is undefined but some graphics like the NY Times one you've shown illustrate Vietnam laying claim to the bulk of the SCS as well. Seems just as provocative.



Another thought, if China is the only one that is supposedly unreasonable, why is it the rest of the other claimants can't come to agreement amongst themselves on their overlapping claims?

 

[solarz]

And do you know why? China's position is a zero-sum game! All of the islands in the SCS belongs to China. That is the official position. Has China offered any sort of compromise over the issue? Will China offer any sort of compromise over the issue? Settling the dispute means getting on your knees and accept that the trillion dollar bonanza is going in to Chinese pockets. Oh...and if you swallow just right, you just might get some scraps.

Just because you keep repeating a fabrication won't make it true. If I thought you were the least bit interested in an actual debate, I would point out that initial territorial claims are almost never the same as the final settlement reached in the resolution of border disputes. In 2011, China settled its 130-year-old border dispute with Tajikistan for only 3.5% of what it initially claimed. This is called diplomacy, and is a normal, integral process of international relations.

However, judging from the tone and content of your posts to date, you will simply ignore facts that flies in the face of your beliefs. It is apparent that you are only interested in making assertions born out of your prejudice. You are free to continue to do so if you wish, but you will find little audience here.

 

[solarz]

Why are you keep saying that China is trying to own the waters in SCS? It's the islands that it's reclaiming.

Because otherwise, his narrative would fall apart.

 

[Blackstone]

What do you mean the "usual way"? While the meaning of the nine-dash-line may be ambiguous, at least it's a visual cue that China claims all the islands within.

By "usual," I mean no departure from basic structure of previous China national maps, drawn by Chinese officials from whatever Chinese governmental departments that are responsible for China map drawings. In short, go back to the status quo of cartography, and stop doing things Chinese officials know would create controversies and upset others.