China's SCS Strategy Thread

[solarz]

Re: East China Sea Air Defense ID Zone

Why don't you go to the bottom line? Taiwan Province government accepted Philippines apology and the matter is closed. No more talks of murder.

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Just because Philippines and Taiwan patched things up doesn't mean the murder didn't happen.

 

[i.e.]

Re: East China Sea Air Defense ID Zone

Just because Philippines and Taiwan patched things up doesn't mean the murder didn't happen.

also one has to note that this shooting incident happened very near a boundary of a maritime dispute. an overlap of EEZ I believe.

now one would argue that Philippines has the right to regulate what it sees as its own EEZ.

But,

the default method by which it was regulating, against a slow, clearly marked, unarmed small fishing boat, is 50 cal is concerning to say the least.

It flies in the face of every known interpretation of Freedom of Navigation. yet, that aspect of it was rarely mentioned, even in the Taiwanese local press.

 

[i.e.]

This paragraph is unclear and troubling-



What sea islands? All of them? What does adjacent waters mean? How much water? Does China recognize rocks don't get EEZ as islands?

It reads like a diplomat's statement and it is a diplomat's statement,which is to say always leave room for maneuvers.

for precisely definition of its position one should see my link.

 

[chuck731]

Vietnam's case is interesting, because part of their claims on the islands in the SCS is an inheritance from French seizure of the Parcel Islands (from China) in 1938. China's answer is the same as what Leonidas said to Xerxes: come take them!

Except to all the rest of the world, while Vietnam and Phillipines are not yet seen as anything like modern day Leonidas in this conflict, China is seen as being pretty close to modern day Xerxes.

 

[chuck731]

And while we're on the subject of fear and anxiety, which nation sent a heavily-armed 3000-ton warship to arrest fishermen? Which nation's coast guard murdered foreign fishermen with machine guns? Which nation's government later told bald-faced lies in order to cover-up said murders?

Not China.

When a country of 1.3 billion confronts poorer countries of less than 100 million, people cut the smaller country much more slack than needed to overlook these infractions.

 

[Blitzo]

Except to all the rest of the world, while Vietnam and Phillipines are not yet seen as anything like modern day Leonidas in this conflict, China is seen as being pretty close to modern day Xerxes.

Media is a powerful and subtle tool.

Of course, I doubt most people are that well versed to the actual history of the time and probably more imagine the roles vis-a-vis the movie 300 lol...

When a country of 1.3 billion confronts poorer countries of less than 100 million, people cut the smaller country much more slack than needed to overlook these infractions.

And if one of the countries is a "democracy" and the other is "communist" it only adds to the get out of jail card.

Hypocrisy, hypocrisy everywhere.

 

[solarz]

When a country of 1.3 billion confronts poorer countries of less than 100 million, people cut the smaller country much more slack than needed to overlook these infractions.

Except when the smaller country is called Iraq.

 

[chuck731]

Except when the smaller country is called Iraq.

No, People around the world cut Iraq a lot more slack then the US as well. But the US started from a position of vast superiority in stored reserve of good will. The extra slack Iraq received was insufficient to make up for the disadvantage in time to make any difference for Iraq.

In case of South China sea conflict, not only would the world cut Phillipine and Vietnam more slack, but they start from positon of superiority in stored reserve of good will as well. China will not win the publicity game in this conflict.

 

[chuck731]

Re: East China Sea Air Defense ID Zone

what are you talking about? just precisely everytime a US Navy carrier battle group docks in Hongkong for a little whoring and drinking it is exercising that right.

Totally irrelevent. Hong Kong is Chinese territory and surrounded by Chinese territorial water. US Navy carriers needs, asks for and is given permission each time to docks in Hongkong.

International custom is the US Carriers ought to be able to travel and maneuver at will outside Chinese territorial water, but inside EEZ, without asking or needing to ask for permission from China.

Some times intention is communicated, but that is a courtesy of the traveler, not a right of the host.

Chinese position is the opposite. China believes those carriers may only be in EEZ by the grace of China and therefore they must ask for that grace. Furthermore this grace is China's to withdraw at will.

 

[i.e.]

Re: East China Sea Air Defense ID Zone

Totally irrelevent. Hong Kong is Chinese territory and surrounded by Chinese territorial water. US Navy carriers needs, asks for and is given permission each time to docks in Hongkong.
.

and they have to transit through EEZ to get to Hong kong isn't it?

and will the entire battle group dock there or just some of the surface fleet.

there are thousands of ships transiting through CHinese EEZ every single day and china doesn't ask every single of them to ID themselves does it?

if in your esteemed opinion, a transit rights equals the right of dragging a huge sonar array behind yourself and loitering around the other guys sub base, then if you gets harassed along the way, it is pretty much expected. and if you cry about it and further more, base your crying on the absoluteness of transit rights, then you are pretty much exploiting the transit rights at expense of other user of this space. it is depleting the good will of international law for its own petty, transitory, and insignificant geopolitical advantage.

One would think the leader of free world and world's only hyperpower should know better than act like this, for posterity sake.