China's SCS Strategy Thread

[Blackstone]

Re: East China Sea Air Defense ID Zone

If you term China's maritime surveillance agency as a "professional harassment fleet", then you should have no problem calling the Filipino coast guard a "professional murder and extortion fleet".

Who's claiming murder? Not the Taiwan Province government. While it's tragic a FCG Marine killed a Taiwanese fisherman, Philippines has officially apologized and the matter is resolved.

 

[Blitzo]

Re: East China Sea Air Defense ID Zone

Who's claiming murder? Not the Taiwan Province government. While it's tragic a FCG Marine killed a Taiwanese fisherman, Philippines has officially apologized and the matter is resolved.

There are a few cynical but realistic minds who wonder if the Philippines would have been so forthright if it had been a chinese rather than Taiwanese fishing boat.
Indeed, some have wondered whether the trigger happy marine shot at the Taiwanese boat in the first place only because it had some chinese characters on it.

 

[solarz]

Kindly address these two questions-
1) Can you link relevant government statements to that effect?
2) Why is China's definition of freedom of navigation different from the rest of the world?

1.

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2014年2月14日，外交部部长王毅同来访的美国国务卿克里会谈时，阐述了中方对当前南海局势的基本看法和政策主张。

　　王毅说，首先，南海局势总体是稳定的，中国有能力也有信心与东盟国家继续共同维护好这一地区的和平。

　　第二，南海航行自由与安全过去、现在和将来都不存在问题，各国都享有在南海自由航行的合法权利。

　　第三，中国与东盟国家正在全面有效落实《南海各方行为宣言》，加强海上务实合作，并在此基础上顺利推进“南海行为准则”的商谈进程。

　　第四，中国对南海诸岛及其附近海域的主权有着充分历史和法理依据，目前存在的争议是上世纪70年代以来一些国家非法侵占中国南沙群岛部分岛礁而产生的。尽管如此，中方仍一贯致力于通过与直接有关的当事国通过谈判协商，以和平方式解决有关争议。

　　王毅表示，最近国际上有些人散布不实之词，渲染和放大南海争议，人为制造地区局势紧张，中方对此不能接受，坚决反对。

2. Different how?

 

[Blackstone]

Re: East China Sea Air Defense ID Zone

Fair enough, I don't believe Chinese officials have, at any point, said that they plan on treating SCS island EEZs different from any other island EEZs, as established in international law.

China has, indeed, imposed different EEZ rules than most other nations; China doesn't believe ships and planes from other countries could cruise up and down its EEZ, even if they are far outside the 12 miles territorial limits. So the bottom line is China doesn't follow international laws on freedom of navigation in EEZs.

 

[i.e.]

Kindly address these two questions-
1) Can you link relevant government statements to that effect?
2) Why is China's definition of freedom of navigation different from the rest of the world?

1)

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btw, just remembered
9 dash line was first publish in '48. UNCLOS is 82.

So it is bit ridiculous to apply a 82 law to a claim made in 48.


2) If you mean RoW you mean US.

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what is acceptably is still being vigorously debated.

UNCLOS says yes you have freedom of nav. but the EEZ country will have the right to regulate what's safe inside of it.

 

[i.e.]

Re: East China Sea Air Defense ID Zone

China has, indeed, imposed different EEZ rules than most other nations; China doesn't believe ships and planes from other countries could cruise up and down its EEZ, even if they are far outside the 12 miles territorial limits. So the bottom line is China doesn't follow international laws on freedom of navigation in EEZs.

what are you talking about? just precisely everytime a US Navy carrier battle group docks in Hongkong for a little whoring and drinking it is exercising that right.

 

[solarz]

Re: East China Sea Air Defense ID Zone

Who's claiming murder? Not the Taiwan Province government. While it's tragic a FCG Marine killed a Taiwanese fisherman, Philippines has officially apologized and the matter is resolved.

Actually, the Taiwanese have repeatedly claimed the incident was murder. Including the victim's family. Furthermore, this was only the latest in a series of Taiwanese fishermen deaths at the hands of Filipino coast guards.

Secondly, the Filipino government initially refused to apologize for the actions of their coast guard, instead claiming that the Taiwanese fishing vessel was trying to ram the coast guard vessel, who were then forced to open fire in self-defense. It was only after months of diplomatic pressure, including economic sanctions from Taiwan, that forced the Filipino government to admit wrongdoing.

Read this thread to see how we followed those events in real time:

http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/members-club-room/philippines-vs-taiwan-troubled-waters-6428.html

 

[Blackstone]

1.

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This paragraph is unclear and troubling-

Fourth, China's South China Sea islands and their adjacent waters sovereignty has sufficient historical and legal basis, there is now controversy since the 1970s in some countries part of the Nansha Islands and the illegal occupation of China generated. Nevertheless, China still has consistently worked with the parties directly concerned through negotiations and consultations, a peaceful solution to the dispute.

What sea islands? All of them? What does adjacent waters mean? How much water? Does China recognize rocks don't get EEZ as islands?

 

[Blackstone]

Re: East China Sea Air Defense ID Zone

Actually, the Taiwanese have repeatedly claimed the incident was murder. Including the victim's family. Furthermore, this was only the latest in a series of Taiwanese fishermen deaths at the hands of Filipino coast guards.

Secondly, the Filipino government initially refused to apologize for the actions of their coast guard, instead claiming that the Taiwanese fishing vessel was trying to ram the coast guard vessel, who were then forced to open fire in self-defense. It was only after months of diplomatic pressure, including economic sanctions from Taiwan, that forced the Filipino government to admit wrongdoing.

Read this thread to see how we followed those events in real time:

http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/members-club-room/philippines-vs-taiwan-troubled-waters-6428.html

Why don't you go to the bottom line? Taiwan Province government accepted Philippines apology and the matter is closed. No more talks of murder.

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[solarz]

This paragraph is unclear and troubling-

What sea islands? All of them? What does adjacent waters mean? How much water? Does China recognize rocks don't get EEZ as islands?

Read i.e.'s link. It actually lists all the islands that applies.