China's Problem ?

zhou · Oct 26, 2006

The reason is simply because the best and prospective Chinese students going abroard after finishing their college education.For example,in Beijing University(the best university in China) 95%-100% Biologic students went to the universities in EU or USA to carry on their Ph.D studying and few of them went back.
Another reason is the research conditions in China is really bad.R&D money is too less than USA or EU.The research works always be interrupted by political reasons.The officials who managing the money and resources ofen are not scientists.
In a word,China always does not lack good scientists or good students,the goverment just doesn't know how to use them and how to use its resouces.

T-U-P · Oct 26, 2006

The officials who managing the money and resources ofen are not scientists.

and let's not forget about corruption. Sure, you hear that the Chinese government is investing heavily in R&D, but do you really know how much is actually going into the research and how much is being put into the private pockets of the corrupted officials? I'm not saying that all officials are corrupted, but it is a fact, and most Chinese knows, that the wages for research scientists are not that high while the officials who organize these researches get paid a lot, and they are not even the people who does the work! This is especially true in some institutions where the insitution/university gets all the money and the researchers get nothing.

silverster · Oct 26, 2006

T-U-P said:
and let's not forget about corruption. Sure, you hear that the Chinese government is investing heavily in R&D, but do you really know how much is actually going into the research and how much is being put into the private pockets of the corrupted officials? I'm not saying that all officials are corrupted, but it is a fact, and most Chinese knows, that the wages for research scientists are not that high while the officials who organize these researches get paid a lot, and they are not even the people who does the work! This is especially true in some institutions where the insitution/university gets all the money and the researchers get nothing.

good point, anyone care to post photos of Army officials driving Hummer H2's, Porsche Cayennes or BMW X5's?

dioditto · Oct 28, 2006

SampanViking said:
Hi FreeAsia

I must be brief. I think we can expect to see Research Institutions taking their Privatly raised research Budgets out of the West, with its high costs and Moral/Religeous objections and take them to China and other Developing Countries where, a good Technician/Researcher base, plus amoral viewpoints and much higher PPP's will make these countries far more attractive places to set up the Lab

Amoral? What do you mean? could you elaborate?

dioditto · Oct 28, 2006

Gollevainen said:
If the government needs to categorise some idelogyes or political movments as 'dangerous' or threathening, it has chosen the path of tyranny and opression and by the own standards of communist ideology, sosiety where opression takes place means that there is unjust in its horizontal elements, aka the class struggle continues...and that is not how it is mented to be in sosialistic sosiety.
So I repeat my orginal claim, Chinese communist ideology and its aplications are pervert and distruped and had nothing to do with orginal scientific sosialism and its orginal Marxist theory, and that had lead to political mistakes that could be held as the sole combining element if one wants to answer to the orginal guestion of this thread.
Governments are not dutied by any authority to 'preserve' themselves or hold some sort of obligations of greatestness. Those are chauvinist day-dreams that the ruling elite wants to hear to make their consiences calm, nothing all liveble communities doesent need to use force against people who demand changes...

But that isent actually relevant to the topic itself and as I recall there migth have been rule banning the issue of Tiananmere square incident so If you want to continue over that spesific topic, I suggest to do it in PM level if feel it nessery....I wouldn't

Does that mean the US is also perverted and "on the path of tyranny and oppression" ?? If I remember correctly, in the 1960 and 70s there were a lot of anti-war movements and some people were killed in these peace movments resulting from police crackdown. That sounds to me like oppression and gross human rights violation.

Jump to present day, the racial profiling, religious prosecution, gross violation of basic human rights and violation of Geneva conventions. I don't see the US has any moral high ground to point finger at anybody.

Gollevainen · Oct 28, 2006

Well did I said that US isent tyrrany??? Or did I speak about US mouth? How often do you hear someone pro-US, critizising chinese by the unpurity of its Marxist ideology??? There are tyrranny and uneven sosietyes everywere and dont believe so easily about the imago what the rich west wants to give you...

But that has nothing to do with the thread so I suggest you to drop useless off-topic country bashing for good and focus on chinese proplems...

ahho · Oct 28, 2006

as silvester said most of those student have immigrated to other place to search for job, since there are many program at university to help them find a job in the foreign regions. The second part is that due to the cultural revolution has basically slow down the country. As my parent said, going communism wasn't the problem at first, during that time it is acting just as the old nationalist government, not too many restriction (but gambling at home is restricted). It was until the cultural revolution that slow down the progress. Also at Qing dynasty, we all know what had happen plus ww2, that basically slow down China 's growth.

Infrastructure wise, what i heard from my parents when they live through those days there was medical care but now even paying for a normal bed at china is more expensive than paying a high class room in hong kong hospital.

kunmingren · Oct 29, 2006

well, if we are getting historical about why China is lagging behind the western world, we might as well look deeper. I think the mongol invasion and the destruction of Song Dynasty did more harm to China's development than anything else. The mongol conquerer destroyed most of the advance agriculture and handcraft which at the time was the most advanced in the world. They also didnt understand commerce or finance, destroying the very developed commerical and trade systems under the Song. China could well had its industrial revolution a thousand years ago, just imagine what that would be like.

The Ming Dynasty was just as much of a disaster, it was too paranoid and too conservative, it actually destroyed and restricted knowlege of metallurgy and gunpowder to keep the popluation from rebellion, causing china's military technology to deteriote to a point where the Koreans were able to produce better swords and firearm.

Qing dynasty has its own problem, it continued with the Ming's policy and only half heartly put in reforms when its too late.

SampanViking · Oct 29, 2006

Quote Dioditto

Amoral? What do you mean? could you elaborate?

Meaning that China is less restrained by the intense Moral and Ethical Issues that affect many key areas of science today in the west. GM research, Human Fertility and Cloning being three of the most obvious. A Scientific Socilaist Society is more likely to ask does it work? and can make it make money? rather than beat itself up over the "rights and wrongs" of the matter. As an Aethiest country, many of the objections simply fail to materialise in the first place, as they are usually grounded in religeon.

To the rest of the commentators

Much of your comments make sense if applied to state funded research. Please realise however that Privately funded research; Institutions, Charities, etc are relocating facilites to take advantage of China's buget stretching abilities and to escape the confines of Western moral prohibition and the personal danger from Militant activists.

adeptitus · Oct 31, 2006

My $0.02:

* Xenophobia is a normal and natural survival instinct.

* We discriminate/generalize others, because our thought process require a "frame of reference" to function. Given a truely random situation, many of us would be paralyzed with fear and indecision.

* Moral values are absolute. Moral relativism is not a moral value, neither is hiding behind a crowd ("good of the majority").

* Realpolitik, by its nature, is amoral. It means dealing with others in a practical manner and not based on morals or ethics.

China's Problem ?

zhou

Just Hatched

T-U-P

The Punisher

silverster

New Member

dioditto

Banned Idiot

dioditto

Banned Idiot

Gollevainen

Colonel

ahho

Junior Member

kunmingren

Junior Member

SampanViking

The Capitalist

adeptitus

Captain