broadsword
Brigadier
I reported your little self-projecting chauvinistic rant to the moderators.
Looks ok to me/
I reported your little self-projecting chauvinistic rant to the moderators.
Your clan comes from one of the 3 most privileged banners, out of 24. An aristocracy of sorts, among the bannermen.My clan's history is a good gauge of the entire group I think. We come from one of the largest Manchu clans, so it's like seeing the width and breath of pretty big portion of the Manchu population. The fact that there are people from merchants to empresses from my clan shows that occupation is not limited by family as we're saying in a post above.
I reported your little self-projecting chauvinistic rant to the moderators.
Yes it is privileged but only partially. Most of the people in the clan are just normal people and not the 1%. A lot of the success comes from having capital to keep the family strong with good education and opportunities. But there are a lot of the family, cadet branches that don't do so well and are just normal people. Even for plenty people in the are "aristocracy" merchants are not below them, making money is more important. My mom was saying even when she was young (1950s) she remember seeing people ketou to my great grandfather.Your clan comes from one of the 3 most privileged banners, out of 24. An aristocracy of sorts, among the bannermen.
But I appreciate your input. I will keep it in mind as I continue to explore Qing and other eras of China's history.
Do you have a proof? My source claims that the marriage was only legalized in mid 19th century and even then the occurrence was low.
Yes, very interesting. Also quite exceptional. However, one family's history does not write the history of an entire people.
Listen, we cannot settle this in this manner. You call BS anything I write that contradicts your established viewpoint and dismiss all works of history based on the language they were written in. That basically kills any possibility for dialogue right there.
So every English history book on Manchu history is wrong then. I don't read foreign book on Chinese history, because most are either translated or imagined. I only read the original source material.
Feel free to look up the heseri 赫舍里 clan, we are one of the largest clans after the aishigioro. I also have family tree books going back several hundred years on all sides of family (mongol, Manchu, han).
By mid Qing, Manchu and han marriage is pretty common.
My family has been bankers for 7 generations in shaanxi, had land to farm (as land owners) in Hubei for at least 200 years. Several were government officials. And pretty much everything in Hanko's HanZhengJie is owned by my family (like every shop), so a merchant. On the same side we also opened a university that is now part of Huagong, and a lot of them are academics that were sent to France in the late Qing Dynasty for study.
That is only my family.
You've been nothing but belligerent and disrespectful since my first post yesterday.You claimed Manchu were BARRED from any occupation other than military, official, and farming.
Do you even understand the terms you use?
There's this thing called a rational debate. Look it up.Who are you exactly to tell a Manchu person what the history of his people is? And you thought @Gatekeeper's post was chauvinistic? LMAO!
You've been nothing but belligerent and disrespectful since my first post yesterday.
There's this thing called a rational debate. Look it up.
And you've been disrespectful to our collective intelligence.
Look up the word rational. Hint: it doesn't mean holding on to one's position in the face of all contrary evidence.
A self-righteous man telling others of their own ethnicity who they are is enough to be put on the ignore list. Had to deal with enough of these types elsewhere already but it seems there are those in here as well. Can't seem to get rid of them.It all becoming to sound all very familiar that only us Chinese living abroad will understand. And that is a foreigner lecturing us on how we see ourselves.
And when challenged because we don't see it the way they do, we are the belligerent one!
Sound familiar, Guys?