China's Defense/Military Breaking News Thread

[lgnxz]

In terms of progress made to spending ratio, PLA has been doing impressive for many years. I see no need to change the status quo.

What's the rush?

China is not going to drastically increase its military spending

You people simply don't get it. Is it really too much to ask for the defence spending to grows parallel to the economy? economy grows 8%, defence then should go up 8%, economy grows 4%, then defence should at least be 4% too, higher would ofc be better, it's really simple. However, what we have had for at least the last 15-20 years is a complete negligence in trying to ramp up the defence spending in conjunction with the growing economy, hence for such a long period of time, defence spending as a percentage just keeps going down, all the way now to the comical 1.27% (again that too using 2021 GDP, so it's actually even lower).

If you still can't comprehend the absurdity, let's compare it to japan. Japan, whose defence is already helped by the american's colony in their soil, and with how they legally forbid themselves to have a lot of attack/strike oriented capability, has a

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, and given their trend the rate will continue to increase as their economy is already stagnant. What's your excuse now for china to has a defence spending that's LOWER than japan??

So please, change your mindset and get a sense of the urgency, start behaving like you're from a country with 18.1 trillion dollars economy and 1.4 billion populations currently facing security challenges from india in the west, south china sea and taiwan contingency in the south east, and the american with its puppets in the east.

 

[lgnxz]

Drastic measure wouldn't need to be taken if the government was able to reverse the trend back when the problems were still minor, let's say when the defence spending just starting to slip below 2%. It's because of how low/bad it is now, you kinda have to use drastic measures to alleviate the problem, otherwise it won't be fixed forever.

 

[56860]

You people simply don't get it. Is it really too much to ask for the defence spending to grows parallel to the economy? economy grows 8%, defence then should go up 8%, economy grows 4%, then defence should at least be 4% too, higher would ofc be better, it's really simple. However, what we have had for at least the last 15-20 years is a complete negligence in trying to ramp up the defence spending in conjunction with the growing economy, hence for such a long period of time, defence spending as a percentage just keeps going down, all the way now to the comical 1.27% (again that too using 2021 GDP, so it's actually even lower).

If you still can't comprehend the absurdity, let's compare it to japan. Japan, whose defence is already helped by the american's colony in their soil, and with how they legally forbid themselves to have a lot of attack/strike oriented capability, has a

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

, and given their trend the rate will continue to increase as their economy is already stagnant. What's your excuse now for china to has a defence spending that's LOWER than japan??

So please, change your mindset and get a sense of the urgency, start behaving like you're from a country with 18.1 trillion dollars economy and 1.4 billion populations currently facing security challenges from india in the west, south china sea and taiwan contingency in the south east, and the american with its puppets in the east.

Ridiculous comment. Japan has an economy of 5 trillion compared to China's 18 trillion, so it is spending far less than China in absolute terms. Even more so when you go by PPP, which you should. The US has to upkeep hundreds of overseas military bases, fleets and salaries. That's why it's so high. I know there's a rule against comparing India to China, but India is very much a failed state compared to China, it needs to focus on addressing very systemic issues like poverty alleviation rather than pouring so much money into space/military.

China's MIC is very efficient with its funding, as we have seen from the breathtaking modernization of the PLA post Gulf war. It is doing what the USSR did, which is rival the US, at a fraction of the cost. No need to change what's working.

 

[Michaelsinodef]

There's another component though, which is spending that is not listed under military spending (which exists in all countries basically). Could be stuff like research, funding, secret projects maybe etc. (spending on nuclear stuff probably isn't that public or complete visible either)

Also beginning to up it too much would probably make people in the west nervous (the politicians and elite), and it could be the case that they are 'upping it' without actually putting more in the 'official' military expenditure.

 

[Overbom]

There's another component though, which is spending that is not listed under military spending (which exists in all countries basically). Could be stuff like research, funding, secret projects maybe etc. (spending on nuclear stuff probably isn't that public or complete visible either)

Indeed. More accurate models have the Chinese spending at 1.7% of GDP.

No way it is below 1.5%

 

[lgnxz]

so it is spending far less than China in absolute terms

Well yes, talk about the obvious, duh. Apparently you forgot to read my "behaving like a country with 18.1 trillion dollars economy and 1.4 billion populations" part. It still nevertheless spend more as a percentage despite facing way less security challenges, what's your actual argument here?

I know there's a rule against comparing India to China, but India is very much a failed state compared to China, it needs to focus on addressing very systemic issues like poverty alleviation rather than pouring so much money into space/military.

Yet nevertheless this failed state still pose security challenges against china in the border with increasing intensity, as well as increasingly becoming more aligned with the west. The question that you should ask is if india, as you claimed to be a failed state, can has decent defence spending, why can't china? Like, are you supposed to make an argument against china increasing its defence budget, because talking about india's case actually does the opposite lmao. Quick note too, their defence spending increased by 9.8% for this year, outpacing their economic growth as usual. No breaking news to fearmonger about it ofc from those western media, I guess that's one perk for sepoy-ing themselves again for the west lately.

China's MIC is very efficient with its funding, as we have seen from the breathtaking modernization of the PLA post Gulf war.

Well evidently and thus objectively, it's still not breathtaking enough compared to the whole economic growth. Your argument still can't justify the reason why we keep reducing the defense budget each year while every adversaries around are gearing up at a rabid pace. What do you need to be afraid of from increasing the budget if the MIC is efficient with the fund?

There's another component though, which is spending that is not listed under military spending (which exists in all countries basically). Could be stuff like research, funding, secret projects maybe etc. (spending on nuclear stuff probably isn't that public or complete visible either)

Well looks like the r&d section is going down as well, so even if you want to combine them together with the yearly defence spending, the percentage would go up to say 1.7%, but it's still a downward trend. 1.7% is still way too low as well and given the source of this number is from a western defence thinktank (SIPRI), exaggeration is also very likely.

Also beginning to up it too much would probably make people in the west nervous (the politicians and elite), and it could be the case that they are 'upping it' without actually putting more in the 'official' military expenditure.

Please, you're not living in a cave with zero contact since 2016. The hawkish western political class will always be that way, cluelessly living in their own bubble and believing what they want to believe. You see it yourself how the narrative is spun for the 7.1% defence spending growth with such exaggeration, and on the contrary how hypocritical their opinions on the indian's 9.8% defence growth. Who cares what those people think?

 

[HeiTangSeng]

View attachment 84600
Well looks like the r&d section is going down as well, so even if you want to combine them together with the yearly defence spending, the percentage would go up to say 1.7%, but it's still a downward trend. 1.7% is still way too low as well and given the source of this number is from a western defence thinktank (SIPRI), exaggeration is also very likely.

Where does this chart come from? Declining R&D spending as a percentage of GDP?! WTF! Like we say in China, I almost believed you.

Here's the Nature quoting National Bureau of Statistics of China

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As someone not too far from basic research, the money/resources/talents have been pouring in. And it's much much easier to attract high caliber talents back to China thanks to the joint effort by China and USA!

 

[lcloo]

This one from Statista shows complete difference to post #1496 above.

 

[56860]

Well yes, talk about the obvious, duh. Apparently you forgot to read my "behaving like a country with 18.1 trillion dollars economy and 1.4 billion populations" part. It still nevertheless spend more as a percentage despite facing way less security challenges, what's your actual argument here?

Yet nevertheless this failed state still pose security challenges against china in the border with increasing intensity, as well as increasingly becoming more aligned with the west. The question that you should ask is if india, as you claimed to be a failed state, can has decent defence spending, why can't china? Like, are you supposed to make an argument against china increasing its defence budget, because talking about india's case actually does the opposite lmao. Quick note too, their defence spending increased by 9.8% for this year, outpacing their economic growth as usual. No breaking news to fearmonger about it ofc from those western media, I guess that's one perk for sepoy-ing themselves again for the west lately.

Well evidently and thus objectively, it's still not breathtaking enough compared to the whole economic growth. Your argument still can't justify the reason why we keep reducing the defense budget each year while every adversaries around are gearing up at a rabid pace. What do you need to be afraid of from increasing the budget if the MIC is efficient with the fund?

View attachment 84600
Well looks like the r&d section is going down as well, so even if you want to combine them together with the yearly defence spending, the percentage would go up to say 1.7%, but it's still a downward trend. 1.7% is still way too low as well and given the source of this number is from a western defence thinktank (SIPRI), exaggeration is also very likely.

Please, you're not living in a cave with zero contact since 2016. The hawkish western political class will always be that way, cluelessly living in their own bubble and believing what they want to believe. You see it yourself how the narrative is spun for the 7.1% defence spending growth with such exaggeration, and on the contrary how hypocritical their opinions on the indian's 9.8% defence growth. Who cares what those people think?

You are absolutely thinking about this in a very narrow-minded sense. The only way China has managed to get this far is because the CCP has prioritized the development of its single most important asset, the Chinese people, above all else. Improving the quality of life of the average Chinese citizen is the bedrock of further economic, military, scientific, even cultural growth. And China still has large swathes of its population well below high income status and only a 60% urbanization rate. Without its people a nation is nothing, after all, what is China but the Chinese people? You aren't going to build 6th gen fighters no matter how much % GDP you spend if all you have to work with is a bunch of illiterate, malnourished, superstitious peasants hooked on opium.

An exaggeration, but the point remains. Feed your starving populace. Put a roof over their heads. Eradicate diseases and parasites. Build infrastructure. Build more infrastructure. Build schools. Mandate education. Improve material wealth. Improve social services. Encourage the flow of human capital from rich areas to poor areas. This is what China has been doing for the past 72 years of its existence, and the ensuing result is the greatest poverty alleviation campaign in human history and the birth of a superpower.

Stop comparing China to Japan. Japan is a developed country that has pretty much reached its peak level, China is a developing country. Once China becomes a first world nation in every sense of the word, only then should military funding take priority over poverty alleviation.

India is pretty much the exact opposite of what China should do, and thankfully what China has done. Indians are not naturally more stupid or incapable than Chinese, a look at Indian talent in the west should tell you that. Yet India is decades behind China in every field of military technology despite consistently expending a larger % of GDP. This is because India forgot to prioritize development of human capital over military expenditure, and is now 20 years behind economically, 30 years behind in terms of social factors, and >30 years behind technologically. India will not beat China regardless of budget because its malnourishment rate, infant mortality, poverty, average IQ, life expectancy, etc, are all decades and decades behind China.

 

[Bellum_Romanum]

You are absolutely thinking about this in a very narrow-minded sense. The only way China has managed to get this far is because the CCP has prioritized the development of its single most important asset, the Chinese people, above all else. Improving the quality of life of the average Chinese citizen is the bedrock of further economic, military, scientific, even cultural growth. And China still has large swathes of its population well below high income status and only a 60% urbanization rate. Without its people a nation is nothing, after all, what is China but the Chinese people? You aren't going to build 6th gen fighters no matter how much % GDP you spend if all you have to work with is a bunch of illiterate, malnourished, superstitious peasants hooked on opium.

An exaggeration, but the point remains. Feed your starving populace. Put a roof over their heads. Eradicate diseases and parasites. Build infrastructure. Build more infrastructure. Build schools. Mandate education. Improve material wealth. Improve social services. Encourage the flow of human capital from rich areas to poor areas. This is what China has been doing for the past 72 years of its existence, and the ensuing result is the greatest poverty alleviation campaign in human history and the birth of a superpower.

Stop comparing China to Japan. Japan is a developed country that has pretty much reached its peak level, China is a developing country. Once China becomes a first world nation in every sense of the word, only then should military funding take priority over poverty alleviation.

India is pretty much the exact opposite of what China should do, and thankfully what China has done. Indians are not naturally more stupid or incapable than Chinese, a look at Indian talent in the west should tell you that. Yet India is decades behind China in every field of military technology despite consistently expending a larger % of GDP. This is because India forgot to prioritize development of human capital over military expenditure, and is now 20 years behind economically, 30 years behind in terms of social factors, and >30 years behind technologically. India will not beat China regardless of budget because its malnourishment rate, infant mortality, poverty, average IQ, life expectancy, etc, are all decades and decades behind China.

A freaking MEN to that my brother!! Well put.