China-Pakistan finalize frigate deal

FreeAsia2000

Junior Member
Please see the post on Pakistan's acquisition of the Spruance and the
quote from the Defence journal.

This ties in with the comments there about three steps

1. acquisition of frigates and destroyers for defensive work

2. acquisition/alteration of submarines to carry missiles for attack

3 acquisition of an AWACS system as announced the Swedish system
has now been given the go ahead for aircraft to protect the frigates
and destroyers
 

Gollevainen

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well as there seems to be lurking danger of getting into wrong tracks due some sort of ignoral obvilion over worlds major navies, a little remainder of those mentioned Thai frigates...

The biggest are Nareusan and Taksin, which closely resambles of those famous german MEKO export frigates, not least whit their modular desing. They displace some 2600 tons of water whit 121 meter hull sailing on 32 knots. They are armed whit 8 Harpoon SSMs, 1 Mk41 127mm DP gun, two chinese twin 37mm AAs and provision (but not fitted whit) Sea Sparrow SAM VSL cells...and similar sonar to Jianghu class ffgs and pair of the Whitehead 364mm triple TTs.

Thais also have four Chao Praya class frigates identical to Jiangwei III class...
 

isthvan

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Gollevainen said:
well as there seems to be lurking danger of getting into wrong tracks due some sort of ignoral obvilion over worlds major navies, a little remainder of those mentioned Thai frigates...

The biggest are Nareusan and Taksin, which closely resambles of those famous german MEKO export frigates, not least whit their modular desing. They displace some 2600 tons of water whit 121 meter hull sailing on 32 knots. They are armed whit 8 Harpoon SSMs, 1 Mk41 127mm DP gun, two chinese twin 37mm AAs and provision (but not fitted whit) Sea Sparrow SAM VSL cells...and similar sonar to Jianghu class ffgs and pair of the Whitehead 364mm triple TTs.

Thais also have four Chao Praya class frigates identical to Jiangwei III class...

Golly I know all about Thai frigates(there was great articlle about Thai navy in Croatian military journal during late 1990s), and wile Nareusan class looks like great design Thai navy had mayor difficulties to make them fully operational.
Acording to Thai navy officials Nareusan and Chao Praya classes had problems whit quality of workmanship, and considerable rework was needed to bring the vessels up to acceptable standards. The ability of the ships to resist battle damage was extremely limited, and damage control facilities were virtually non-existent. Fire-suppression systems were rudimentary, and it appeared that were the hull breached rapid flooding would quickly lead to the loss of the ship.
I hope that China solved problems whit quality controle since then...

Ps. I really don’t understand way Pakistan decided to use Chinese equipment on new frigates… Since majority of Pakistani ships already use us equipment they should have ordered western weapons systems (Harpoon, ESSM)…
By ordering Chinese weapons they will joust complicate fleet logistics…
 
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tphuang

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isthvan said:
Golly I know all about Thai frigates(there was great articlle about Thai navy in Croatian military journal during late 1990s), and wile Nareusan class looks like great design Thai navy had mayor difficulties to make them fully operational.
Acording to Thai navy officials Nareusan and Chao Praya classes had problems whit quality of workmanship, and considerable rework was needed to bring the vessels up to acceptable standards. The ability of the ships to resist battle damage was extremely limited, and damage control facilities were virtually non-existent. Fire-suppression systems were rudimentary, and it appeared that were the hull breached rapid flooding would quickly lead to the loss of the ship.
I hope that China solved problems whit quality controle since then...

Ps. I really don’t understand way Pakistan decided to use Chinese equipment on new frigates… Since majority of Pakistani ships already use us equipment they should have ordered western weapons systems (Harpoon, ESSM)…
By ordering Chinese weapons they will joust complicate fleet logistics…
Golly, I'm talking about the OPV (no. 512) that China exported to Thailand, not the frigate. I'm not sure about Chinese workmanship of the past, but I think the standard must have been improving. Or else, it would not make sense for the Thai navy to order more ships from China. I also read about other Asian navies looking to import Chinese hulls and installing Western control systems. Also, I imagine the workmanship on these Chinese ships should be alright, since they've been exporting so much.

Also, you can read what I wrote to see why PN decided to use Chinese equipment.
 

Gollevainen

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Oh i see...
Thougth they seems to be totally new desing, (and if changed to corresponding offensive naval vessel names, corvettes, not frigates)...
But will see what the Thai reports of them are and is the workmanship really improved or not. It would help us to determ something about current PLANs own ships
 

MIGleader

Banned Idiot
tphuang said:
as I explained numerous times before. C-803 does not exist. C-802A = improved YJ-83 or maybe improved YJ-83 is YJ-8x (x something else now). The range of C-802A is quoted between 180 and 200 KM.

Still, even if the f-22p has this impressive anti-ship missle, what about air defence? the hq-7 is defintely a poor choice of SAM. The very least china can do is make a s-an-12 style launcher to fire hq-9s.
 

crazyinsane105

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MIGleader said:
Still, even if the f-22p has this impressive anti-ship missle, what about air defence? the hq-7 is defintely a poor choice of SAM. The very least china can do is make a s-an-12 style launcher to fire hq-9s.

I'm probably sure that the PN is going to change the SAM system on the ship. Whether or not the SAM system will be of Chinese origin is still not clear though.:confused:
 

adeptitus

Captain
VIP Professional
From Kanwa Defense Review, June 2005:
==============================

The biggest cooperative project in naval systems between Pakistan and China is the joint production of F22P frigate. According to the Memorandum of Understanding finalized in 2001, the project should have started in 2002, and Karachi Shipyard is expected to construct two of the four contracted F22P frigates in the following seven years. The initial two frigates were built at Hu Dong Shipyard in Shanghai. The Pakistani Navy is also planning to procure another four F22P frigates, making the total eight. The price China offered was US$120 million, and the total cost of the previous four would be around US$480 million. This price did not include weapon systems, helicopters and the corresponding radar and sensor systems to be fitted on board.

At present, the project has been put off till later, and the chance for the finalization of the agreement this year is also slim. The essential problem is that Pakistan does not have the needed financial resources for the procurements, and because of this, Pakistan is considering getting loans from China to solve the problem. Related negotiations are already underway. Karachi Shipyard claims all design work of F22P has been completed. The model F22P put on display by Karachi Shipyard indicates that the vessel has under gone some major changes.

The changes include a newly added rear mast on which the China-made meter wave radar is installed. Secondly, the bridge has been redesigned so as to avoid acute angling of the surface and enhance stealth features. In the original plan that China provided to Pakistan, the frigate will employ LY60 SAM, but now Pakistan has decided to use HHQ7 SAM. The helicopter hangar is also redesigned to accommodate more China-made ESM/ECM facilities. Different from the Chinese Type 053H3 (Jiangwei II) FFG, F22P will be equipped with two 630M CIWS produced by license from Russia. The hull sonar may be from Ukraine. The newly designed F22P has increased its length from the original 114.5m to 118m, and the breadth of the FFG have been changed from the Chinese design of 12.4m to 13.2m and depth 10.2m.

Karachi Shipyard claims Pakistan has accepted the plan of purchasing Z9C, as Z9C has a lower price with equivalent combat performance features. Besides, F22P helicopter hangar is designed specifically for Z9C. The eight SSMs loaded on board are not YJ8-3, a SSM which has been widely deployed on the Chinese Navy’ combat ships, including the new generation 054 FFG and 052B DDG. China claims YJ8-3 is capable of performing terminal stage super-sonic speed flight. The missile system on F22P will still be C802. Unless the construction time has to be put off so late due to funding problems, the FFG will not be fitted with newer missile systems, with respect to the technological progress at that time. What is also under consideration is that F22P will be fitted with new generation NR6A ESM/ECM systems, with one set of antennae on each side. The system is developed by Yangzhou Ship-borne Electronic Equipment Research Institute.


==========

The specs from 2005, as claimed by Kanwa, is as follows:

F-22P Frigate (improved Jiangwei II)
Length: 118 meters
Breadth: 13.2 meters
SAM: HQ-7
CIWS: 2x AK-630
AShM: 8x C802
Radar: Meter-wave type
ESM/ECM: NR6A system
Helo: Z9C

However back in 2004, it was claimed from IDEAS-2004 Expo report that the F-22P would be upgraded with the following:

THALES naval group will provide its two or three radar system for F-22 frigates:
* SMART-S MK-2: Medium to longe range 3D surveillance radar
maximum ranger 250 km/ minimum 150 meters, tracking 3D capacity ait+surface 500 targets, detection accuracyfor small missile`50km, MPA `200km, E/Fband frequency band,it is capablefor surface surveillance, surface gun fire support, jammer surveillance , IFF interrogation support, detection ECCM techniques,
* SCOUT MK2: I BAND radar(
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German company Atlas elekktronik(a BAE SYSTEM company) offer its ASO-94 hull mounted sonar system for PN F-22 frigates, ASO-94 is medium frequency sonar system,its designed for the surveillance of the underwater environment for detection, localisation, classification and tracking of targets. choice of defferent operational modes and parameter settings allow for optimal detection of targets in littoral (shallow) and deep water.the sonar efficiently can be use for the classical ASW tasks the ASO94 sonar is capable to detect: Submarine, Midget, mini submarines,AUVs and UUVs ,Torpedoes, Moored mines and underwater obstacles, surface vessels, speed boats etc.( see:
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German company atlas elektronik will supply its new state of the art fiber optic wire guided SEAHAKE MOD-4 torpedo, it is passive and combine passive/active operating multi-frequency torpedo, high speed fully digitally,and i can't belive its rang up to 50km, yes its true,its hase 3 batteries, torpedo lenght 6600mm, this torpedo offer to pakistan navy's AGOSTA90B submarines, MBD.A's display SEASPIDER torpedo, it is a anti torpedo.

MBD.A missile system display its ASPIDE2000 sam system ,pakistan intrest in this missil system for its land based defence, ASPIDE/SPADA2000 semi active missil with a range in excess of 20 km ,its capable to defeat aircradft and PGM weapons.

MBD.A missile system also dispaly its ERYX man-portable anti tank multirole fire support weapon against all ground targets, 95% hit result, direct attack, wire guided, tendem warhead, 50 to 600 meters range,13 kg weight, this missile offer too.

MBD.A display its Exocet missile family AM-39, SM39 and MM-40 BLOCK-3, pakistan will get chinese F-22 frigates this company intrest showing to puchase MM-40 block3 long rang anti ship missile to PN,
MM40 block2 is 3rd generation 70 km range missile but block 3 is 4th generation 180km range, high subsonic speed, dvance seeker / GPS/ leser gyro nevigation guidence, this missile available in 2007

========

I think the specs are changing from year to year, LoL. Let's just wait until the first ship is actually built & fitted.
 

tphuang

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
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MIGleader said:
Still, even if the f-22p has this impressive anti-ship missle, what about air defence? the hq-7 is defintely a poor choice of SAM. The very least china can do is make a s-an-12 style launcher to fire hq-9s.
well, I don't think PN expects F-22P to be that high tech. I think you meant HQ-16 instead of HQ-9? HQ-9 is long ranged one. I think adding SA-N-12 will add to the cost. If PN is willing to pay for it, then why not?
 

maglomanic

Junior Member
tphuang said:
as I explained numerous times before. C-803 does not exist. C-802A = improved YJ-83 or maybe improved YJ-83 is YJ-8x (x something else now). The range of C-802A is quoted between 180 and 200 KM.

Yes indeed you pointed that out to me on PDF once before. Still i couldnt get any source to substantiate that. I would really appreciate something like that :)

(P.S we need to get this info on our website. Alot of people rely on SDF and treat as quite reliable , lets keep it this way :) )
 
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