China Flanker Thread III (land based, exclude J-15)

tphuang

tphuang

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
VIP Professional
Registered Member
i think it's best if we separate the engine from the power generation capabilities.

For J-15T and J-15DT, there are plenty of clues on just how much power generation there is. They invested into this platform because J-15T will be around for a while, whereas J-16 production has stopped at this point. It's unclear to me how much J-16D production is still going on.

Guancha guys spoke quite long about how radar had to be smaller and further into the nose to provide more space for all the power generation related equipment needed on J-15DT. Not only that, it was only due to the EMAL catapult, that J-15DT, with all that heavy electronic equipment, can take off from a carrier. If we consider that systems should get small and lighter with new technology that runs on higher voltage (same power, higher voltage -> lower flow and smaller generator needed), the fact that system actually got heavier on J-15DT vs J-15DH tells you that power increased significantly from J-15DH and J-15DT. If we consider that J-16D came about the same time as J-15DH, I would guess the power requirement on J-15DT is actually higher. So, it is the most power consuming flanker platform there is. Which kind of makes sense given the lack of land based large EW aircraft that could operate alongside J-15DT.

And i think a few month ago, one of the big shrimps said J-15T has the most powerful radar. That would corroborate with the idea that J-15T is likely expected to stick around longer than J-16. If also came a decade after J-16, so should have its interior design frozen about a decade later. It is very possible J-15T actually has higher power system than J-20. So yes, if I was to rate flankers by electronics and power potential, it would be:
J-15T, J-16, J-15/J-11B, J-11A
The fact that we are essentially spanning almost 4 generation of electronics platform on flankers with PLA just shows how good of a platform flankers is and how much upgrade potential it had.
 
Blitzo

Blitzo

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
Gloire_bb said:
...on Al-31f?
This is the question, naval al-31f(not even advanced version) is sufficient for J-15T and even TD(i.e. front array and up to 4 escort pods)
Click to expand...

Hmm your question implies that the engine itself is the more significant bottleneck for power generation for an aircraft rather than its associated genset. As we've seen with various aircraft (including F-35), the power generation systems and thermal management systems of an aircraft can be upgraded to increase power without actually requiring a gross increase of engine performance.

It may well be that J-15T and J-15DT (or any other aircraft for that matter) may see no increase of power generation even if they are upgraded with engines that have more thrust, if the genset and thermal management system remains constant.

OTOH, an aircraft can have the same old engines they always have, but if upgraded with a new genset and thermal management system, can see a meaningful uplift in power generation capacity.
 
Gloire_bb

Gloire_bb

Colonel
Registered Member
Blitzo said:
Hmm your question implies that the engine itself is the more significant bottleneck for power generation for an aircraft rather than its associated genset. As we've seen with various aircraft (including F-35), the power generation systems and thermal management systems of an aircraft can be upgraded to increase power without actually requiring a gross increase of engine performance.
Click to expand...
Were original al-31f generators ever changed? This may have happened, but to my knowledge Russian OEM never demonstrated stronger ones for vanilla engine, only for al-41f.

I won't do a conclusive statement from what we see (absence of evidence), but tbh from what we see, I'd be rather surprised there's extreme power involved there.

On both AN/ALQ-99 and NGJ series(both MB and LN), power source is self-contained (though that visibly comes at expense of volume).
 
C

Clango

Junior Member
Registered Member
sequ said:
China's been copying and improving Flankers for more than two decades but somehow they left the powergeneration alone? That does not compute.
Click to expand...
presumably that means power generation was way overkill from the get go such that they don't need to upgrade upon it despite constantly increasing electricity requirements
 
Gloire_bb

Gloire_bb

Colonel
Registered Member
sequ said:
China's been copying and improving Flankers for more than two decades but somehow they left the powergeneration alone? That does not compute.
Click to expand...
Power generation is part of engine, or it's some other component which is usually very visible. Same is true for cooling capacity.
It has to be an actual problem, too - if original genset and cooling capacity is sufficient for design goals, then well, it is.
 
Schwerter_

Schwerter_

Junior Member
Registered Member
tphuang said:
i think it's best if we separate the engine from the power generation capabilities.

For J-15T and J-15DT, there are plenty of clues on just how much power generation there is. They invested into this platform because J-15T will be around for a while, whereas J-16 production has stopped at this point. It's unclear to me how much J-16D production is still going on.

Guancha guys spoke quite long about how radar had to be smaller and further into the nose to provide more space for all the power generation related equipment needed on J-15DT. Not only that, it was only due to the EMAL catapult, that J-15DT, with all that heavy electronic equipment, can take off from a carrier. If we consider that systems should get small and lighter with new technology that runs on higher voltage (same power, higher voltage -> lower flow and smaller generator needed), the fact that system actually got heavier on J-15DT vs J-15DH tells you that power increased significantly from J-15DH and J-15DT. If we consider that J-16D came about the same time as J-15DH, I would guess the power requirement on J-15DT is actually higher. So, it is the most power consuming flanker platform there is. Which kind of makes sense given the lack of land based large EW aircraft that could operate alongside J-15DT.

And i think a few month ago, one of the big shrimps said J-15T has the most powerful radar. That would corroborate with the idea that J-15T is likely expected to stick around longer than J-16. If also came a decade after J-16, so should have its interior design frozen about a decade later. It is very possible J-15T actually has higher power system than J-20. So yes, if I was to rate flankers by electronics and power potential, it would be:
J-15T, J-16, J-15/J-11B, J-11A
The fact that we are essentially spanning almost 4 generation of electronics platform on flankers with PLA just shows how good of a platform flankers is and how much upgrade potential it had.
Click to expand...
Clarifying something that confused me a little when reading your post: are you saying that J16 production has stopped as of now (Feb 2026)? Maybe I missed something but I haven’t heard any discussion or news on the matter. That or you meant “when J16 eventually stop being produced” and I just suck at reading comprehension
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top