China Flanker Thread II
- Thread starter sumdud
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Not just triple digit but well over mid triple digit. Possibly close to 700 at this moment.
On the other hand, are you sure F-16s have even started getting AESA radars in meaningful numbers? I thought only a handful received it, as the radar integration did not yet get a green light.
That being said, almost all of the F-15s have it.
Should one count in A-10s in the list in any way?
I wasn’t aware that the US based F-16s haven’t made the switch yet.
I don't see why not, so long as one includes the Q-5s on the Chinese side.
I hope this is the right place to be asking since the radar thread seems to be dead silent but I wanted to ask if there was any hard data like stats available for the AESA radar that was installed on the J-16. It's pretty irritating that almost all Chinese radars are complete black boxes that don't have brochures that give stats such as peak/average power,ranges for a certain size target,diameter and so on. If anyone does have any proper information or images on these AESA radars that are better than these two poor quality images please let me know.
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Once they are ready for export we’ll know for certain. Until then, they’ll remain black boxes.
If they ever get exported it means there’s already been a major upgrade.
Only 72 F-16s from Air National Guard received AN/APG-83. All other F-16s including all USAF F-16s have AN/APG-68(v)9.
Current USAF plans have F-16s flying until mid 2030s when they are replaced by MR-X but so far nothing has been decided on radar upgrades. One of the reasons might be that these F-16s will be re-directed to low threat theaters where they will serve as light bombers more than fighters. F-16 perform spectacularly well as light bombers, especially when range is not a serious issue as in the Pacific. Desert Storm is a great case study that demonstrated that F-16s had better results than both F-117s and dedicated interdictors like F-15E or A-6E in attack missions.
On that - I considered posting the material that I gathered from my Desert Storm research and originally posted it to a different forum where the engine doesn't have a text and image limit. It might be something that the more data and tech-oriented users would be interested in, because it was an eye-opening experience to me. It's data from 30 years ago so the technology changed but not that far and remains a fascinating study of logistics, operations, tactics, effectiveness as well as propaganda and disinformation. Might be useful for any discussions regarding air warfare in the Pacific. It's mostly tables and maps but it did change my views on the issue. Should I set up a separate thread if I find the time to do the necessary edits?
I refer you to my old post:
Air Division, Regiments, ... Bases, Brigades, etc
Latest estimate of fighter regiments and orbat of the PLAAF number around 2200 jet fighter with 50% modern fighter like J10, J11, Su27, Su 30MKK etc via Icloo translated Only 400 J7 left. they are making progress on fleet modernization It was not too long ago that PLAAF look like antiquated Air...
www.sinodefenceforum.com
It has calculation for Primary Mission Aicraft Inventory and other subcategories of Total Aircraft Inventory and lists numbers of active aircraft for USAF, USN and USMC for 2019. Below is the combined inventory table from the post with TAI data for September 2019 (including ANG) and my calculations o active mission-configured inventory.
PMAI = ~63% TAI
Official USAF TAI excluding ANG for September 2020 is as follows:
- 162 F-22: 115 (ACC) + 47 (PACAF)
- 228 F-35A: 116 (ACC) + 102 (AETC)
- 568 F-16C/D: 168 (ACC) + 133 (PACAF) + 79 (USAFE-AFA) + 134 (AETC) + 54 (AFRC)
- 95 F-15C/D: 21 (ACC) + 53 (PACAF) + 21 (USAFE-AFA)
- 213 F-15E: 158 (ACC) + 55 (USAFE-AFA)
- 195 A-10C: 116 (ACC) + 24 (PACAF) + 55 (AFRC)
PACAF - Pacific Air Forces
USAFE-AFA - US Air Forces Europe - Air Forces Africa
AETC - Air Education and Training Command
AFRC - Air Force Reserve Command
Air National Guard (ANG) has TAI of 594 fighter and attack aircraft but ANG has flight hours at 80 per year per pilot (based on disclosed 2018 data) that it should be treated as equipment reserve for the air force. Some of the F-35As went to ANG.
Note that according to those stats somewhere along the line USAF seems to have lost 21 F-22A. They are no longer reported as part of TAI as in the past. Similarly numbers for other aircraft are also suspect. Some of those numers look like PMAI others like TAI.
Also from official data the total aircraft delivered by FY19 are: 343 F-35A for USAF, 56 F-35C for USN, 119 F-35B for USMC and also 48 F-35A for RAAF, 24 F-35B for RAF and 16 F-35A for JASDF.
The TAI published by USAF looks like deliberate misinformation because in the past information that USAF released to the public was consistently reliable year to year and rather transparent if you dug into the data. It no longer is.
Something changed and it reminds me of how USAF data was published during the Cold War.
All in all the total number of "5th gen fighters" is high but their readiness and availability is lower. Range also plays into the equation - look up the post above the one I linked. It includes an explanation and this map:
The circles are indicative ranges of 600 and 1200km.
The main advantage of an American "5th gen" is LO. LO only applies if F-35 doesn't have to carry a load externally which limits its combat payload and range.
Something that I tried to explain in my discussion with Bltizo regarding the Gripen vs Flanker reports is that with the exception of F-22 and F-35 and to some extent F/A-18E/F American fighters do not have the most modern avionics and combat systems. F-15s and F-16s and other aircraft have been developed in the 70s and the approach that military takes is that "what works - stays". So it is incorrect to assume that F-16, F-15 or F-18E has significatly superior systems including situational awareness copared to J-11B or J-10A, especially if upgrades are done. The radar can be better but that's just a single sensor. USAF and USN rely on information provided by other sources - AWACS and ships - and those are at risk in any conflict with China. The F-35 is also not some marvel of technology that F-22A was in 2003. It has some gimmicks - like the helmet - but other than that it has the same sensors, processing and displays that other "4+ gens" have currently. It's really all about where the integration happens and for F-35 which was a "end of history" era "world police" bomber it had to take place in the machine. For any conflict in China's vicinity PLAAF doesn't have to rely on integration inside the aircraft.
It's far from an even playing field between the two but the distance is not as large as some of you indicate and it no longer seems to be growing. In my vie if it was, we would be seeing unilateral actions like in the past, rather than words and posturing and AUKUS.
And with that I conclude my remarks on US aircraft inventory in a China Flanker Thread II. I hope this was helpful but boy do I hate OT rambling. Have a good day guys.
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